Summary

Wine. In a can.

A hellish reality of tinny plonk?

Or a convenient, eco-friendly, fun new format that’s the future for wine? 

This is fun one, because our adventure starts with comedy legend (and proud French snob) Marcel Lucont.

We’re not only treated to an epic live rendition of his scabrous poem ‘Wine in a Can’ (compulsory listening for any wine lover) but also his delicious musings on wine and life more generally – including Beaujolais for breakfast.

After picking ourselves up off the floor, we try to regain some dignity as we ask three questions:

• Is canned wine any good?
• Why should we buy it, if at all?
• And which ones are best?

We exclusively reveal the results of a blind taste test by two Masters of Wine (ie us) to see if we can spot the difference between the same wine from a bottle and a can.

And we report the highlights from a mega-tasting of 77 canned wines, giving a definitive verdict on this fast-moving scene.

Along the way we hear from fellow Master of Wine Richard Kelley (The Liberator), Brixton Wine Club founder Louisa Payne and Morris Carr of ‘craft winery’ Attimo.

And don’t worry, we do ask the BIG questions.

Like: is it OK to swig wine straight from the can?

And: is there a place for straws in this equation?!

Starring

• Marcel Lucont (comedy legend)
• Richard Kelley MW – The Liberator
• Louisa Payne – Brixton Wine Club
• Morris Carr – Attimo craft winery

Links

• Marcel Lucont is brilliant – do go and catch one of his live shows, Cabaret Fantastique at the Crazy Coqs in Soho or on tour with Whine List. You can also listen to his Whine List podcast. You can find all details on his website: marcellucont.com
• Here’s that Global Market Insights (GMI) report on canned wine we cite in the pod
• Here’s another interesting recent study on canned wine by Grand View Reseach
• We talk about diving into wine can geekery, which is actually pretty interesting – here’s a good study in that regard you can download, from Cornell on The Chemistry of Canned Wine
• You can find our podcast on all major audio players: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google, Amazon and beyond. If you’re on a mobile, the button below will redirect you automatically to this episode on an audio platform on your device. (If you’re on a PC or desktop, it will just return you to this page – in which case, get your phone out! Or find one of the above platforms on your browser.)

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Wines

We did a mega-tasting off 77 canned wines in March 2025. Below are our favourites. Thanks to everyone who kindly sent samples.

Broader conclusions? There are some brilliant wines in cans. Properly serious stuff. There are also some rubbish wine in cans. As ever, it pays to do your research.

We’d argue that value is pretty decent. Even at the top end of canned wine prices, you’re not going over £30 a bottle equivalent. Most sit between £12 and £20. And the quality can be really very good (listen to the podcast for more detail on this – and our particular favourites from the below).

Ideal shelf life for cans is two years. Some wines we tried were old and knackered – they hadn’t sold through. Some older wines are absolutely fine after even 4-5 years, including some of those below. Buyer beware.

Fizz in a can

• The Liberator The Francophile Cock and Bulle Perlé Wine, Robertson, South Africa, 11.5% (from £5.09 for 250ml, The Wine Reserve)
• Hands off Low Intervention Perlwein Fine/Fresh White Bubbles 2021, Germany, 11% (from £5.95 for 250ml, Hands Off)

White wines in a can

• Lubanzi Chenin Blanc Swartland 2023, South Africa, 12.5% (£3.65 for 250ml, Waitrose)
• When In Rome Pinot Grigio White Wine Puglia IGP, Italy, 13% (£3.17 for 187ml, When in Rome)
• When In Rome Pecorino Terre di Chieti IGP, Italy, 13% (£3.17 for 187ml, When in Rome)
• Canned Wine Co Grüner Veltiner 2022 No 1, Austria, 12% (from £4.65 for 250ml, Canned Wine Co)
• Half Full Wines, Hook that wine! Ocean Dry white wine Muscadet AOP, France, 12% (£4.80 for 250ml, Vin Can Can)
• Hands Off Low Intervention Riesling Dry Still White Wine 2021, Germany, 12% (from £5.95 for 250ml, Hands Off)
• Banks Brothers Muscadet 2019 No 12, France, 13% (£7 for 250ml, Banks Brothers)
• Banks Brothers Grenache Blanc 2020 No 5, Voor Paardeberg, South Africa, 13.5% (£7 for 250ml, Banks Brothers)

Rose & orange in a can

• Mirabeau Pret-a-Porter Organic & Pale Rosé, Méditerranée, France, 12.5% (£3.50 Tesco, £3.75 Waitrose, Sainsburys – 200ml)
• Copper Crew Organic Rosato IGP Puglia 2023, Italy, 12.5% (£3.50 for 187ml, Copper Crew)
• Canned Wine Co Grenache Rosé 2023 No 3, France, 12.5% (from £4.65 for 250ml, Canned Wine Co)
• Hands Off Low Intervention White Grenache 100% Orange 2022, Spain, 13.5% (from £5.95 for 250ml, Hands Off)

Red wines in a can

• Terre di Fiano Primitivo Organic Wine Puglia IGP, Italy, 14% (£3.75 for 250ml)
• When In Rome Primitivo, Puglia, Italy, 13.5% (£3.17 for 187ml, When in Rome)
• Palbo y Walter Malbec Mendoza 2023, Argentina, 14% (from £4.50 for 250ml, Brixton Wine Club)
• Canned Wine Co Gamay 2022, France, 13% (from £4.65 for 250ml, Canned Wine Co)
• Les Vins de Vicky Ô Joie Fleurie 2020, France, 13% (£5.80 for 250ml, Vin Can Can)
• The Liberator All the Wounded Creatures Malbek 2018, Simonsberg, South Africa, 14.5% (from £5.99 for 250ml, The Wine Reserve)
• The Liberator New Blood & Chocolate Cabernet Sauvignon Shiraz 2020, Coastal Region, South Africa, 14.5% (from £6.49 for 250ml, The Wine Reserve)
• Banks Brothers Merlot 2020 No 17 , Paarl, South Africa, 14.5% (£7 for 250ml, Banks Brothers)
• Candour Wine Blaufrankisch Zweigelt #005 2020, Austria, 11.5% (from £7 for 200ml, Brixton Wine Club)
• Djuce Red Wine Nittnaus 2021 Juicy Red, Austria, 13.5% (£8.75 for 250ml, Vin Can Can)

Sweet wine in a can

• Banks Brothers Late Harvest Chenin Blanc 2023 No 15.1, France, 12% (£7 for 250ml, Banks Brothers)

Taste Off

As part of this episode, we challenged ourselves, as two Masters of Wine, to see if we could tell the difference between the same wine from a bottle and from a can.

Essentially, to see if the can made any difference to the quality or style of a wine.

Remember: the liquid was the same. It was just how they were packaged that was different.

The idea was we were given two glasses in turn and, if there was a difference between them, we could guess which one was the can and which one was the bottle.

Alternatively, we could simply raise a sign saying they both tasted the same.

Our definitive verdict? Well, you’ll have to listen to the podcast for that…

Meantime, here are some fun pics of us hard at work.

Food for thought

In this episode, we talk about how important it is to get the message across that there is now some great wines in cans.

Richard Kelley MW sent across the below image of a cartoon which captures this notion quite brilliantly.

A sign of things to come..?!

Get in Touch!

We love to hear from you. 

You can send us an email. Or find us on social media (links below).

Or, better still, leave us a voice message via the magic of SpeakPipe:

Transcript

NB: this transcript is AI generated. It’s not perfect.

Wine in a Can – Sacré Bleu!

Marcel Lucont: [Comedy rap music by Marcel Lucont]

Susie: Hello, and welcome to a different kind of Wine Blast episode! We are talking wine in cans, but we’re gonna start with some comedy, because we probably all need a bit of a laugh right now, what with everything that’s going on in the world…

Peter: And providing said wit and general japery is the inimitable Marcel Lucont, an iconic character, who is a legend of the comedy and cabaret scene. Self professed raconteur, bon viveur and flâneur, also accomplished musician, as we can hear from our title track, with a hairstyle and an outrageous turn of phrase to match.

Susie: Yep. So let’s start proceedings with a recording of Marcel’s show stopping live performance of his poem Wine in a Can. And just a warning, if you’re in any way prudish, you might want to tune out for the next couple of minutes.

Marcel Lucont:

Wine in a can. Wine in a can.

There are some things in life I just can’t understand.

Is society really so far down the pan

That we are actually fine with some wine in a can?

Wine in a can. Wine in a can.

As the vineyard grape completes its noble lifespan

To be lovingly picked by a sure steady hand

Then fucked into a tin, to be wine in a can.

Can you truly say your life has ‘gone to plan’

As you swig like a pig drinking wine from a can?

As our history books chart the fall of man,

They’ll read ‘Nixon’, then ‘Johnson’,

Then ‘wine in a can’.

Fruit on a pizza. Sandals with socks.

I thought we’d hit bottom, with wine in a box.

But to add to the list of a cultural ban,

Just above ‘Nazi banners’ should be ‘wine in a can.’

Sure, this is a free country, unlike Afghanistan.

You can drive to a car park to make love in a van.

But if that is your choosing, after afternoon cruising

While your partner is snoozing

And your thoughts turn to boozing…

And you’re musing upon it,

Wiping sperm from your bonnet,

Voyeurs give you a handshake

For avoiding the handbrake…

When between them they drop £3.10 in your hand –

Don’t degrade yourself

By buying wine in a can.

Peter: It’s going to be pretty hard to follow that! But follow it we must. And with Marcel’s help too, because he’s going to be sprinkling a Little more comedy gold on this episode before we move on to the, slightly more serious stuff, where we’re going to be asking three key questions. Is canned wine any good? Why should we buy it, if at all? And which ones are best?

Susie: I’m not sure Marcel will be our target audience for this episode! but yep, we are going to be hearing from canned wine luminaries, including fellow master of wine Richard Kelley, Brixton wine club founder, Louisa Payne, and Morris Carr of canned wine producer Attimo.

Peter: We’ll also be revealing the results of a blind taste test by two masters of wine. That’s us.

Susie: That might be us. That might be us.

Peter: Of exactly the same wine in bottles versus cans. Can we tell the difference?!

Susie: We will find out. And we will be reporting on the highlights from a mammoth tasting of 77 canned wines, giving a definitive verdict on the names to look out for in a fast developing scene.

Peter: Yeah, we’ll be talking value, shelf life, convenience, carbon emissions, moderation. And, if all that sounds a bit serious, don’t worry, we will be asking the big questions: Is it okay to swig wine straight from the can? And is there a place for straws in this particular equation?!

Susie: And talking of big questions, before we get into the serious issues on the agenda here, you wanted a bit more of a laugh, didn’t you? So you scheduled a morning call with Marcel Lucont to ask him just a few more questions, starting with how

00:05:00

Susie: his Wine in a Can poem came about.

Marcel Lucont: Sure, let’s go there. Where to start? This, was written at, I was at a festival maybe two years ago, the British festival, which still to me is a fascinating beast. You know, in France, we do camping, we do festivals, but we do the two separately. And with dignity. so I. Every year I get asked to play these festivals, and every year there’s a new atrocity, whether it’s somebody, you know, the Portaloo situation. Let’s not even go there. Or the people foraging food from trucks. But two years ago, backstage, I was handed something which I believe they thought was a treat, some kind of gift. And somebody gave to me some wine in a can. And immediately after staring at them for some time, walking away, shaking their head, I went off to write a poem immediately. And that is the poem produced there.

Peter: And do you think this, this emotion, this reaction, this visceral reaction was entirely because you are French?

Marcel Lucont: No, I think any, cultured being would have responded the same, I think French or otherwise, you know, French, obviously the top of the chart in culture. But anyone with an ounce of humanity would have, I think, dealt with this the same way, I like to think.

Peter: now, obviously, wine in a can is, Is, far more environmentally friendly than bottles. Does that not change your opinion, sway you in any way?

Marcel Lucont: Sure, it’s more environmentally friendly to go around wearing bark on the body and pieces of wood on the feet, but we don’t do it.

Peter: So, what is your wine of choice? Marcel?

Marcel Lucont: The wine of choice for me. Let’s see. I will go. Chateau Margaux, 84, 86. 84. I am going. I mean, currently I’m drinking a little, Beaujolais, a little breakfast wine.

Peter: And how’s that going down?

Marcel Lucont: wonderful. It’s about 10 in the morning. Perfect time for the Beaujolais. Wonderful breakfast wine.

Peter: So your wine of choice very much depends on the occasion, on the time of day, on who you’re with.

Marcel Lucont: The occasion. Yeah, I’m going for a light one this morning. I have a lot to get done. So, you know, it’s, light Beaujolais today.

Peter: And what do you tend to drink on stage? Because it is your signature move, you know, to having a glass of glass of Vin Rouge on stage.

Marcel Lucont: Yeah, I try and, pair the wine to the audience. So, you know, if I am, yeah, if I’m in France, I may, you know, I will go for more refined. I will go for, you know, a nice, full bodied. I will maybe go, let’s see, a full Bordeaux. no, a French Malbec. I would say a French Malbec, just to celebrate that French, grape that the Argentinians have stolen and abused. And the, English audience, you know, I will ref. Less refined, I would say for an English audience. I will go with something a little more rough and ready.

Peter: So, which audience, if any, would provoke you to drink wine from a can?

Marcel Lucont: I would have to be in a very bad place for that to occur.

Peter: And seeing as we’re on the topic, Ah, what about, English wine? Have you sampled any of those delights?

Marcel Lucont: I’ve never seen it myself. I’m told it exists. But I will believe it when I see it. I don’t know, it just sounds wrong. You compare the two sentences. Bottled in Bordeaux. Bottled in Bradford, you know, they both work as sentences. Of course, you know, French one relates to wine, Bradford one hospitalisation. But, you know. Yeah, it just sounds wrong.

Peter: Marcel, final question. What would be your general wine advice to our listeners?

Marcel Lucont: General wine advice? Get to know it like a lover. Treat it well, like a lover. And it will treat you well. You know, you cannot be with it all of the time. You know, wine is your companion, but you have to, get to know it. You have to know it inside and out. And, every now and again, you have to just, you know, smash it.

Peter: Wise words. Marcel Lecont, thank you very much indeed.

Marcel Lucont: De rien.

Peter: Now, I’m not sure how clear it is from the audio there, but I was finding it very hard not to absolutely dissolve in laughter. you know, and this, this is actually a much shortened version of our conversation as well, because, you know, we touched on things like mulled wine, the great British pub quiz, mild cheddar, and, Napoleon.

Susie: Well, I mean, we have been considering putting out some of our best interviews as standalone shows. So perhaps this is one for the upcoming archive?

Peter: That’s a really good idea. Let’s do that.

Susie: Let’s do that. I mean, it is

00:10:00

Susie: a genuinely hilarious interview, I have to say. I think there was one coat, wasn’t there? That there went something along the lines of, if you’re eating mild cheddar, you’ve given up on life. And it sounded a lot better in a French accent, of course, which I’m not going to attempt.

Peter: Doesn’t everything? Doesn’t everything. And we should say, go and see Marcel in his cabaret fantastique residency at the Crazy Coqs in Soho. Or watch his wine List touring show. Whine list, that’s W H I N E Whine List touring show. Or tune into the whine list podcast as well. You can find it all on marcellucont .com the man is a living comedy legend.

Susie: He is indeed. Now, we do need to get serious at, some stage in this show, and that moment has probably come. so we’ve introduced the theme of wines in cans from one perspective. Shall we try to add a bit more?

Peter: Nu, I think that would be a very good idea. so we’re not going to get too geeky. we all know cans, more typically perhaps for beer or soft drinks, but also these days, you know, water and yes, wine. now, we covered canned wine in our WTAF episode a few years back. Check it out. It will also explain the acronym might not be what you’re thinking. we were talking there to a bunch of forward thinking people putting quality wines into alternative formats, which are becoming more and more popular as an alternative to glass bottles. the issue with glass bot bottles is that they’re typically the biggest part of a wine producer or retailer’s carbon footprint being energy intensive to manufacture and Recycle also heavy to ship.

Susie: Yeah. So wine producers are very sensibly looking for alternative ways to package their wines. And cans is a category that seems to have built up serious momentum, particularly since lockdown when glass shortages and a desire to experiment and sample wine led to a mini boom in cans. Such has been the success of canned wines that are recent. Decanter headline asked, have we reached peak can?

Peter: No! would be our short answer. Just, you know, just a quick glance at the market data shows a category in eye catching growth. sales of wine in cans. In the US, the leading market for cans, rose from $2 million in 2012 to $69 million in 2018. That’s, you know, more than 30 times, you know, as cited in Wine Spectator. Multiple studies, canned wines is one of the fastest growing categories in global wine markets. And according to GMI, we’ll put a link to this on our show notes the global canned wine market was worth $1.4 billion in 2024 and it’s scheduled for compound growth of more than 12% to reach $4.6 billion by 2034.

Susie: Yep. Now we’ll come on to the reasons behind the growing popularity of canned wine in due course. But, it’s telling to see the the emerg major canned wine competitions on either side of the Atlantic. Plus British supermarket Waitrose swapped all their small glass bottle formats to cans back in 2023 in a move to, to save them. They said they were. The idea was to save them 320 million tonnes of packaging and to significantly reduce their carbon footprint.

Peter: You know, a contact at Waitrose told us, the canned wine category is gaining traction, especially with the global rising canned beverage sales post Covid. this growth is primarily driven consumer benefits like convenience, portability, quick chilling, easy recycling. Government initiatives to penalise heavier glass alternatives will likely make lightweight formats even more appealing. regarding quality, canned wines can be excellent, especially with careful wine selection, proper handling and packaging and the right can size and liner.

Susie: So just to touch on the can and liner briefly, we’ve been trawling our way through several technical reports on cans which are actually fascinating, teeny bit nerdy. but just to summarise, a can is essentially made up of an aluminium or aluminium alloy structure and a lacquer or liner, typically made from solvent and resins, which separates the liquid from the metal. Wine isn’t the easiest liquid to keep in a can because it’s acidic and contains the preservatives Sulphur dioxide or SO2, which can react with the metal to produce stinky sulphides, which smell like rotten eggs.

Peter: But wine produce producers are getting better at managing this risk. Using thicker liners, for example, and carefully managing both sulphur dioxide, so too copper and chloride levels in the wines destined for cans. they’re also aware of the grape varieties and styles which can be more at risk of this reduction, like, you know, Sauvignon Blanc and Syrah. And, they plan accordingly. And I have to say, from our tasting of 77 canned wines, almost none, were faulty in this way. Were they?

Susie: Okay, so I think that’s good. By way of initial primer, let’s now bring in Richard

00:15:00

Susie: Kelley MW of British wine importer Dreyfus Ashby, and someone who’s been banging the drum for cans longer than most. he’s behind the Liberator brand and also sources the canned wines for Banks Brothers, the Yorkshire duo who describe themselves as restaurateurs by day and wine fanatics by night.

Peter: They sound like bonafide Marvel superheroes, don’t they?

Susie: I think they are.

Peter: That’s something I aspire to. Anyway, I started by asking Richard why cans?

Richard Kelley: I always say it’s down to two things, which is basically convenience and the environmental values. Let’s take the environmental issues first. So, aluminium is obviously an ore. It comes out the ground, but it’s considerably more recyclable than glasses. If you take one of these cans and you empty it, it weighs 36 grammes. If you take a standard bottle of wine, it’s about 360 grammes. So you can just do the maths. too, the space saving there alone. So we are currently canning wines in South Africa. And when I ship a pallet of wine in standard, 75 centilitre bottles, it is 672 bottles on a pallet. That’s about 500 litres of wine on the same pallet. If it’s in cans, I can get nearly 1,000 litres on the same pallet.

Peter: So twice the capacity.

Richard Kelley: Twice the capacity. Purely because it’s not about the weight necessarily, it’s about the space. the cans are so much more compact and they obviously weigh considerably less. So, that just brings, obviously, our shipping costs down and we look towards passing that over to the end consumer.

Peter: So you end up getting better value for a better bang for your buck.

Richard Kelley: Yes. I mean, we’ve done a wine in can and in bottle. The bottle is 20 pounds retail, the three cans 18 pounds. So, yes, it does make. It makes complete sense. and, you know, aluminium, it’s like glass, it’s an inert vessel. So there is no reason why anybody should view cans differently to wine wine in a glass. So the fact is, you know, you, you can open a can. We often open a can at, you know, at home, because we just want a glass of wine and it’s the perfect size. It’s, you know, it’s 25 centilitres, it’s two decent glasses of wine and it just works. My biggest concern with the category is that a bit like bag-in-box box was in the 1980s, that people just perceived the wines as the wine quality not being very good. you know, and we know we’re not trying to pioneer wine in cans per se, but we’re trying to prove that you can put just as good a wine in a can as you can in a bottle and try to get that message through. so my biggest concern is that a lot of the cans that I’ve seen to date, the packaging might be quite fancy, but the intrinsic’s not great. And as far as I’m concerned, there’s no excuse for canning inferior wine because the wine itself is probably the smallest component part of that, of the cost of canning. So there’s no excuse for putting bad wine in a can.

Peter: So great wine can come in a can?

Richard Kelley: Yes, I think so.

Peter: I mean, is there any barrier, for example, to putting Chateau Margaux in a can?

Richard Kelley: No, I can’t see any reason why not.

Peter: But, you know, what do you say to people to persuade them? They may be more traditionalists, they’re used to having their wine out of a 75 centilitre bottle. What do you say to people to win them over, to get them to at least dip their toe in the water with cans?

Richard Kelley: I mean, what I do say to them is there is nothing different in terms of the format. I mean, it’s, let’s say, an inert vessel. I think the most important thing is just to get people to try it. You know, I’m connected with the Banks brothers cans up in Yorkshire, with people like James and Tommy Banks. And in the early days of them trialling the wines, they, you know, you go to the old, to the, to the Black Swan, you, you basically have the degustation menu because that’s the only choice. And most people take the wine package and their staff is so well trained, they’ll come and they’ll pour the wine for you. They’ll. They’ll tell you about it. They’ll tell you the winemaker’s dog’s name if you want to know that. And then all of a sudden, halfway through your meal, there’s a can of Chardonnay dropped on your table. And I’ve seen this happen firsthand. And just the reaction on people’s faces, on a white tablecloth, Michelin restaurant. You’ve got a can in front of you and the reaction is incredible. I would say is again speaking to somebody, James and Tommy, they would say that the people who have experienced that, and they’ve probably been the most adversary to actually tasting the wine out of a can on the table, have been then actually the most people who’ve been convinced the most to go away to tell their friends that actually it’s probably a good idea.

Peter: So it’s another kind of discovery.

Richard Kelley: Yeah. And it’s always interesting to, you know, the circumstances of taking a can of this and sipping it directly from a can and then obviously putting on, you know, put it into a decent wine glass and trying it that way. Because the impression you get is very, is always going to be very different.

Peter: Well, I have to ask you that as a master of wine, I don’t presume you’re going home cracking one of these tins and just swinging it straight from the tin?!

Richard Kelley: I have been known,

00:20:00

Richard Kelley: you know, we, you know, this Albarino or the sparkling one or their bubbles do that, you know. But no, there’s no reason why you shouldn’t do it.

Peter: So you can drink it straight from the can. This is, this is master of wine sanctioned behaviour.

Richard Kelley: Yes.

Peter: You can drink it from the can if you’re thirsty enough.

Richard Kelley: Well, if you’re outside an event like a nice rainy day like today. Yeah, you know, you can. You’ve probably already been prohibited from taking a, a glass in there anyway. So, you know, what else do you do? You’re on a paper cup or.

Peter: Yeah, I was going to say, is there any alternative that you would recommend, you know, if you, if you find yourself

Richard Kelley: A straw?!

Peter: I love this. so, you know, so you can properly savour the taste experience with a straw. Is that right? maybe we won’t go down that road… Richard, thank you very much indeed.

Richard Kelley: You’re welcome.

Susie: Where to start with all that? I suppose the obvious one is the scandalous notion of an MW sanctioning the drinking of wine straight from a can!! Or perhaps even worse, from a can via a straw.

Peter: Scandalous, isn’t it? Absolutely scandalous. and, that story about people being shocked to have a can of Chardonnay plonked on their table in a Michelin starred restaurant. But you know, actually then becoming converts as a result. And we can definitely empathise, can’t we? Because, you know, we tried that Chardonnay and we were converted after trying it, you know, Chardonnay from Newton Johnson in South Africa. We recommended it in our WTAF episode. Absolutely sensational wise.

Susie: And this is the key, you know, the key thing that Richard is driving at, isn’t it? There’s no excuse for putting bad wine in a can. Great wine can come in a can. Chateau Margaux could come in a can. It’s just a case of proving that these wines really can be high quality and getting enough people to back the category.

Peter: Yeah. And both the Banks brothers and Liberator wines are really impressive. We’ll come on to that in a bit. But, you know, I did just want to pick up on the sustainability theme Richard touched on when he mentioned aluminium mining. Now, obviously that mining does come at an environmental cost and it’s energy intensive to make cans. That said, it’s estimated that 75% of all the aluminium ever produced is still in circulation today. And recycling aluminium cans takes 95% less energy than making new ones. Apparently, cans also have some of the highest recycling rates of all packaging. In, the U.S. it’s around 50%, and in Germany, up to 90%. And that’s according to Global Growth Insights.

Susie: So you also asked Richard about shelf life. He explained it’s a bit of an unknown and depends on the wine and the can. But, he started doing cans in 2020 in South Africa during COVID and the first Chenin Blanc he canned then, in his words, is tasting as good now as it did when it first went into cans.

Peter: Yeah, I mean, I think the idea with cans is not to keep them too long. You know, most people say two years is a standard shelf life for cans, which isn’t bad, but, you know, but I have to say, you know, we have also tasted what wines five years old from cans that have been perfectly pristine.

Susie: Right. On that pristine note, I think it’s time to take a break before we hear some more expert views and share the results of our canned wine mega tasting. To recap, so far, wine in a can is not without its detractors, comedic or otherwise. But make no mistake, this is a category with the wind in its sails growing fast on the back of its convenience, sustainable credentials and let’s face it, it for just being pretty cool, you can even whisper it. Use a straw.

Peter: Okay, so next up, we get to hear from Louisa Payne, founder of the Brixton Wine Club. now this originally started out as a wine tasting club in Louisa’s flat. after all the other wine clubs looked a bit too steady for her, apparently. And then during COVID morphed into a canned wine retailer, tailor and subscription club.

Susie: Now, intriguingly, Louisa has a background in fashion where her job was predicting what we were all going to be wearing next. So is her canned wine business a sign of what we’re all going to be drinking next?

Peter: I asked Louisa to tell us about the wider benefits of cans for wine.

Louisa Payne: So I think the thing that people don’t realise with the wine industry, is that the majority of the emissions from the industry come from transportation of glass bottles. And I think with cans there’ so lightweight, especially when they’re empty as well. They’re a matter of like grammes. So super lightweight to transport. I also just love that it means that you can try a bit like, try a different grape variety without committing to an entire bottle. Helps with the moderate drinking trend. So, yeah, those are my, my top three, I think, is environmental, moderation and then kind of the ability to trial different wines.

Peter: Yeah, I mean, how important is the functionality of cans? Literally being able to pick it up, take it wherever and, you know, know just, just that sort of ease of use.

Louisa Payne: Yeah, I mean, that is obviously like one of the huge benefits too, is

00:25:00

Louisa Payne: that you couldn’t take them anywhere. they’re ready to go whenever you need. You don’t need a glass necessarily. You don’t need a corkscrew. There’s no kind of fancy wine apparatus needed to enjoy them. You know, no decanters, anything like that. You just kind of crack the can open and you’re ready to go wherever and whenever.

Peter: So you’re okay just drinking it straight, straight from the can. I.

Louisa Payne: You, you. So you can. I would always recommend that you, pour it out. People often ask me that, do I drink it straight from the can? And sometimes I’ll say to the back in jest, I’m like, would you drink wine straight from the bottle? And I’m like, you, you can, but you probably wouldn’t. you know, I think part of the enjoyment with, with wine is kind of seeing the colour of it in the glass, swirling it around, like being able to release the aromas. And, that’s not something you can do just drinking it straight from the can, but that option is available.

Peter: Can you quantify how much better cans. Can you. And do you quantify how much better cans are, than bottles when it comes to Things like carbon, emissions and recycling.

Louisa Payne: Yes. Cans generate 190grammes of CO2 per litre of wine, whereas standard glass bottles generate 525grammes of CO2 per litRE. So it is quite like there are some good stats out there already that show this. And I think it’s generally alternative formats and formats on the whole, such as cans, bag in box and paper bottles, can cut carbon emissions by up to seven times that of a glass bottle.

Peter: Is it generally a younger crowd, who you tend to sell to?

Louisa Payne: It’s a mixture. I think there’s, I think it depends what they’re buying it for. But my kind of, of my main audience is up to 45 years of age. so I think generally it is the younger kind of crowd and I think that younger generation are actually used to everything being in cans now. Like we drink canned water, you know, everything comes in a tin. And I think they’re so much more kind of predisposed to trying that versus some people that would look at it and say, I will never try wine in a can, but they probably drink like Coca Cola, like water and, and beer, and don’t think anything of it from a can.

Peter: So what do you say to persuade those people, maybe those sceptics who are used to buying their wine in 75 centilitre glass bottles, you know, how do you win over the traditionalists?

Louisa Payne: Well, so my trump card, I would say, for that is even in a blind taste test against wines from all different formats, a master of wine couldn’t pinpoint the wines in that, like, what format they’d come from. And so you can test this theory for me as well. but that was always the one of just saying, you know, even someone that is, you know, top tier, like highest kind of knowledge level, they couldn’t tell in this taste test.

Peter: Is it hard battling against maybe the perception that great wine doesn’t tend to come in a can?

Louisa Payne: It is hard and I think it’s especially. It can be trickier because we are online, so we can’t always get right in front of people and, get them to try it straight away. I’ve, whilst I’ve been doing Brixton Wine Club, as a side note, I’ve also been running a wine on tap mobile wine bar that goes to, like, festivals and things. So I’m very used to people questioning the format. So that would be wine in kegs, that comes in 20 or 30 litre kegs and they always look and go, oh, my God, like, is that going to actually be Nice. And I can just give them a sample and say, try it, let me know what you think. And, you know, you get that instant kind of. They go, oh, that’s fine. I’m like, yeah, it’s great. It’s so funny. Like, people look at beer taps and they’ll, you know, that’s a, that’s a sign of quality, right? You go, oh, it’s on tap. I’m gonna have that. You know, it’s like tap, then it’s bottle, then it’s can. I feel like in the, the beer kind of way you look at that. But for wine it’s like bottle and then everything else is kind of. And actually, I think, you know, obviously wine is made in casks and also huge stainless steel tanks, which arguably could just be an enormous can.

Peter: I love that thought. And sometimes these wines, when you sort of scale the can size up to a 75 centilitre price, which is what we tend to use as a judge of price, these wines in cans can be quite pricey. You know, how does that sit with people buying them?

Louisa Payne: I mean, it’s a good question. And I think, yeah, most of them do end up sitting around the 20 pound a bottle sort of mark, because our average price, I’d say, is between 5.50 and £6 a can can. So, yeah, it does, it’s. It’s definitely more expensive than anything you’d get on a Tesco Club card deal. And, you know, yeah, it doesn’t compare with what you can get in the supermarket, but it’s not supposed to do the exact same job. So, I think, you know, the, the producers coming into this space or the brands coming into this space really know that. I think there’s a bit of a conception of canned wine being bad quality. Like, you know, when it was screw top versus cork, you know, this, this whole thing, I think I know they’re taking on something that

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Louisa Payne: has got a bit of a bump to, you know, get people into. And, so I think they want to really subvert that by being like, this is really good wine we’re putting in here and give people that reason to try it. And like, it’s, it’s not like absolute plonk, you know, it’s not. It’s not going to be five pound a bottle sort of thing. These are five pounds a can.

Peter: Louisa, thank you very much indeed.

Louisa Payne: Thank you. Thank you. It’s been so, so nice to talk about my favourite subject.

Susie: I love that idea that wine is frequently made in big Versions of cans like stainless steel tanks or big vats. So why should we get our knickers in a twist about selling it in small cans?

Peter: Yeah, exactly. You know, I wonder how much a stainless steel tank of wine would cost. Not going to get that rabbit hole. But, no, you know, it was interesting what she said about price too, wasn’t it? Again, sort of echoing Richard Kelley in that there’s clearly a big movement to put quality wines into cans now rather than perhaps the at, best serviceable sort of train station fairer before, so they can work out quite pricey, but equally, you know, 10 to 20 quid. But even so, you know, it’s still.

Susie: Value for money, isn’t it?

Peter: You can get value.

Susie: Yeah, yeah. And she actually also sent over some more stats on the sustainability front, citing a Systembolaget study that said switching to three 250 millilitre aluminium cans, I. E. 750 millilitres in total, like a bottle, cuts 79% of the carbon emissions that would be produced by that bottle.

Peter: I also asked Louisa about the future. She said a couple of things. Firstly, social media like Instagram and TikTok are key for building trust and awareness for her. And secondly, she was just back from Wine Paris, the big show, and her take was that, you know, as global wine consumption is going down and drinking habits are changing, producers are looking for kind of new and innovative ways to re engage with customers, particularly young ones. And cans are a real opportunity in that sense. So, you know, she’s predicting a lot more canned wine coming onto the market.

Susie: Yeah, I mean, she also said she’d like to see canned wine being taken more seriously by retailers and not just stocked in the convenience section, but put on shelves alongside normal bottled wine. Which sounds sensible.

Peter: Yeah.

Susie: And not just that, she also laid down a challenge to us, did she not? Could we tell the difference between the same wine from a can and a bottle?

Peter: I, thought you were never going to ask, you know. She did indeed slap us with a silk glove. So we gladly accepted her challenge and sat down with two different red wines, one Italian, one South African. In both cases, it was exactly the same wine. The only difference, that one had been put into account can and the other one came in a bottle.

Susie: So what were the results? Drum roll, please.

Peter: Right, we have just done a direct can versus bottle wine taste test. Susie Barrie, master of wine, over to you.

Susie: Okay, well, the bottom line is the difference is negligible. If m. If indeed there is a difference really at all. Yes, we, we used, Two red wines. So we’ve got an Old World wine, a new New World wine, both in can and bottle and. Yeah. What do we think?

Peter: Well, yeah, I mean. So why don’t we go through it? So the first wine, I’ll throw this over to you. why don’t you do the first one?

Susie: Yeah.

Peter: These, these South African.

Susie: South African. So this is the, the Liberator and it’s a Cabernet Sauvignon Shiraz blend and it is known as New Blood and Chocolate. It was the 2020 vintage. So, ah, you’ve got a wine here that’s quite, quite rich. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s definitely, definitely New World. but, and, and when you look at the two wines and the, the can definitely looks a little bit younger and when you taste them, yeah, it tastes a little bit younger, but it’s marginal. And if you weren’t tasting both wines, you, ah, at the same time, you would never know.

Peter: Yeah. And it’s an interesting one, isn’t it? Because, I guess because it’s 2020, it’s actually had time to evolve in the packaging.

Susie: Yes.

Peter: So it’s evolved in the bottle. Hasn’t evolved so much.

Susie: So much in the can. Which makes sense, you know, which makes sense.

Peter: But neither is worse or better necessarily. Just very slightly different.

Susie: Slightly different.

Peter: and you wouldn’t often be able to taste that old wine in a can. So quite interesting in that sense. And can hasn’t fallen down at all at all.

Susie: Not at all. So we’re talking 20, 25 years in the can and it’s actually tasting delicious.

Peter: Well, maybe if it spent some time barrel. Maybe slightly less in the actual even so significant time. Really interesting. But no degradation in the can then the, the, the Old World red was the Terre di Faiano Primitivo from Italy. this one’s 2023 Puglia. And again, for me, I couldn’t tell the difference here between the can and the bottle. And maybe because it’s a more youthful vintage, it hasn’t had so long in the packaging, which I guess is what you would suppose that would be. You know, the idea of cans is that they’re quite quick turnover, so you would drink them quite soon for me, really. Very, very negligible difference. And just two delicious wines in different ways.

Susie: Exactly, yeah. I mean, it just shows you how you can

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Susie: drink either wine from a can or a bottle and you’re still going to have a great experience.

Peter: There we go.

Susie: Okay, so proof that cans don’t necessarily mean inferior quality or mean the wine is really any different to how it would be in a bottle. Now, will this be true in absolutely every case? Maybe not. For example, after this, we also tried a Tiki Ridge Sauvignon Blanc from Marlborough in New Zealand. And there was a difference. The can was just a little bit more muted and less vibrant than the bottle, wasn’t it? But we are not just, we have to say this, we’re not 100% sure it was definitely the same vintage. You know, the bottle was 2023. The can didn’t stay to vintage. And in any case, it wasn’t as if the can was poor quality. It was just. Just a little bit different from the bottle.

Peter: Yeah. And equally, you know, sometimes you can taste two bottles of the same wine and they’re different. So, you know, I guess the key message is cans, if done well, should not make any appreciable difference to your wine than bottles, especially in the short term and even, I guess, as we taste it in the medium term, given that, red South African wine was 2020, so five years old, you know, in short, you can trust cans. You know, there’s no reason to be scared of them. You know, we would definitely not agree, for example, as one writer, one wine writer recently put it, that the flavours skew tinny. You know, that’s a myth.

Susie: Okay, so before we get into our, mega tasting, let’s hear from Morris Carr of Attimo, the Italian canned wine brand. Morris is originally from the uk, but set up what he calls a craft winery with a friend in northeast Italy. In his words, they stumbled across cans during COVID when they wanted to send samples to the uk, but there was a global glass shortage. After realising how well cans worked for wine, Morris says, we never look back.

Peter: He notes how the markets are evolving. You know, the US and the UK are big markets for wine in cans. But now he sees Scandinavia and, Northern Europe, even France and Spain starting to show potential, partly led by the example of ready to drink cocktails and craft beer.

Susie: So I asked Morris what his target market is.

Morris Carr: It’s really millennials. So, late late 20s to late, 30s, essentially. the reason is I know them very well. Being a millennial myself, I also feel that the market, there’s not really any companies, or brands really responding to the wants or needs of the, new drinker. I think think, the beer market, the beer sector have done this extremely well. I think the spirits have done it extremely well. I think the wine sector Is still lagging behind in that, cans are a big way to promote this because you know, you can drink in moderation. I think the tendency of younger consumers is to drink less. so having just one can, enjoying one glass, it’s, you know, it’s aligned with the wants and needs of younger consumers. Linked to occasions. People like to spend time with friends. I think this is being pushed a lot by Covid. Spending time in nature, hiking, going to the beach, travelling. And this is something which, you know, you can throw in the bag, go on a train to go hiking, go camping, rather than having a bottle as well, which can easily, with breakages and ah, you need a corkscrew. It’s just a lot handier. And also to be more the experience and have. Be more experimental, the want to that age group discover new varieties. they want authenticity, they want to see where a product actually comes from. And they place a lot of importance as well on sustainability. So it needs to be a product which is aligned also with their values. And I think that’s something we’re trying to do and I don’t really see that in the market at the moment. Not 100%.

Susie: And. And how do you see the future for canned wine?

Morris Carr: I. I think it will grow. I think it’s already seen, extremely good growth and I think that will continue. I think people. It’s more of a mental block, but I think as people realise the advantages of canned wines, the perception you can have good quality, and that’s where we want to come in with Attimo and show you can have good quality wine in a can. I think people will start to change, you know, trends, consumption train trends are changing. So people are drinking in moderation and you know, people always want to go home, long hard day at work and just enjoy a glass of wine. And I think that’s where cans can really come in in that part.

Susie: Morris, thank you so much.

Morris Carr: Thank you.

Peter: Interesting that Covid link that runs across many canned wine operations, isn’t it? You know, if you look at the data, the growth was there before, but maybe that just kind of supercharged the whole thing.

Susie: Yeah, yeah. And maybe younger consumers are leading the way as more Morris says, perhaps we more mature folk have a thing or two to

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Susie: learn from them.

Peter: As ever.

Susie: On which Note, we tasted 77 different wines from cans and we have the photos to prove it. I think this must be one of the biggest tastings of its kind. What was our verdict?

Peter: Excited! occasionally disappointed, but mainly excited. I mean, I think it’s clear there are still some wines in cans which are, not good good. They never were and they’re just style over substance and are just not worth the money. But it’s equally clear that some people are taking this extremely seriously, putting outstanding wines in cans. And that’s very exciting.

Susie: Yeah, I mean, there is a very clear divide between the good stuff and the bad, isn’t there? So we have a full listing of our favourites on our website, show notes, but by way of headlines from the tasting, who would you say is doing a good job with wines in cans?

Peter: Okay, so, so I’d name check Banks Brothers. some of their wines are truly outstanding. You know, we’ve mentioned the epic South African Chardonnay, which is sadly now sold out. But, you know, they have a superb oaked Grenache Blanc from Voor Paderberg made by Chris Williams of the Foundry. Just superb if you want a sort of savoury, complex dry white wine. Also, they’ve got a lovely, luscious late harvest Chelin from France and a really fun kind of opulent Merlot from Paarl, made by Johnny, Kalitz at GLenn Carlou. You know, by way of counter argument, I would add that they’re not cheap. They’re around seven quid a can, so that works about 21 quid a bottle. plus, you know, some of their batches are tasting a bit old now, I would say that. But, you know, what they’ve done is they’ve put down a marker. You know, they have shown what can be done in terms of quality wine in a can, and that’s huge. What, about you, what would you say?

Susie: Yes, so I’d give a shout out to the canned wine company. They do a superb Austrian and Gruner Veltiner, a classic Southern French Grenache rose and then a wonderfully crunchy Touraine Gamay. They, they look, they look pretty smart, though. I can’t say I’m a massive fan of the design and colour scheme. There are better out there. There are some amazing designs.

Peter: I have to say, I actually really quite like them. I think they’re quite smart and they’ve got that lovely tactile, you know.

Susie: Yeah.

Peter: So for me, they’re quite smart.

Susie: Yeah.

Peter: But I get.

Susie: Yeah, it’s not my favourite, but. But you know, there are some good and then some bad, but they’re very good wines. But moving on, I’d also cite When in Rome as a reliable and good value brand, doing really excellent things with Italian wines.

Peter: Yeah, absolutely. you know, we’ve mentioned them before, but I think it’s worth giving Waitrose credit, you know, as a major retailer backing this category. Their Terre di Faiano Primitivo and Lubanzi Chenin Blanc. You know, really solid wines in cans. Actually, really good value at about 365, 375 a can.

Susie: Yeah.

Peter: You know, and we did like the Mirabeau Preta Porter Rose too, which is also 365. Again, good value. Also sold by Tesco and Saints, who’s another major retailers. I, I think it would be good to see more major retailers championing cans, actually.

Susie: Yeah, absolutely. And I’d also mention Vin can can as a smaller UK retailer with a really good range of cans. You know, brothers Simon and James Hawkins run, Vin Can Can. They do things like the Ubercool de Djuce brand. we, we really like their Knit Nous Juicy Red Crazy. And then also Les Vins de Vicky O Joie Fleurie was, was lovely as well.

Peter: Really nice. and I know I’ve mentioned Banks Brothers, but I’d also give a shout out to Richard Kelly’s liberator, wines in cans, things like his cock. And I’m going to say this very, quickly and move on. Cock and Bull Perle wine from Robertson. It’s essentially just lovely oak Chardonnay with bubbles. I absolutely loved it. You weren’t quite so keen, but I’d.

Susie: Love to know you liked it.

Peter: and then the heartwarming reds like New Blood and Chocolate Cabernet Shiraz and the. Or All the Wounded Creatures. Malbeck, he sent a photo of that from his hotel room recently.

Susie: Yeah, yeah, no, they were. Those reds were great, weren’t they? And as seeing as you’ve had a final shout out, I’ll also give a mention in, the more kind of natural, if you like, category. to the Hands Off brand. their German Pearl Vine Low Intervention German Riesling and Spanish Orange Garnacha Blanca were definitely impressive in that context.

Peter: You know, as for sort of wider, conclusions, I think it’s clear decent wines can survive the test of time in cans. Equally, though, you know, it’s a bit concerning tasting some of the older stuff. Sometimes it’s past its best because you’re thinking, you know, are these wines not selling through properly? I guess it’s.

Susie: I mean, it’s a bit chicken and egg, isn’t it? You know, it’ll take time for awareness and acceptance to take off, but you need proof of concept before it does. But, yeah, while the, while the good Wines aren’t, aren’t exactly falling over. Ideally, you do want to be drinking something not too old, I would say from a can.

Peter: Yeah. Another thing that’s not always easy to. To find is information on cans. You know, it’s a particular bugbear of mine that, you get loads of kind of zany, cool slogans and commentary plastered all over the can quite like that. But there’s a total lack of helpful information like a vintage or origin or candidate. Maybe I’m showing my age, maybe I’m being so grumpy and pedantic, but that’s just me.

Susie: I’m sorry, it’s the surprise.

Peter: I’m going to say well done to Banks brothers, Ms. Vicki the Liberator and Can Wine Company in that regard. Good info

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Peter: there. Ah. and a good tip here is that sometimes there is helpful information printed, but it’s on the bottom of the can, which isn’t always obvious at first, but do take a look at that. Stop laughing.

Susie: Haven’t we been tasting that? I’ve got this image of you with a can up in the air, desperately trying to read the bottom, pouring some.

Peter: Of it on me in the process.

Susie: Now, in terms of price, the, good wines don’t usually work out as cheap, sometimes up to the equivalent of around £20 a bottle, retail. But. But there are some decent value options. And when canned wine is good, it’s usually worth the money. You know, as Richard Kelly said, the savings on shipping costs can help with the value proposition. anecdotally, we’ve had feedback also from some operators who have actually quit the canned wine business, saying it’s hard establishing canned wine brands without the backup of a bottled brand, partly because they’re not necessarily, as we’ve said, a cheap purchase. And it can be a bit of a leap of faith for people to buy into them. But it does seem as if the tide is turning.

Peter: It does, it does. And, you know, it’s always hard to make predictions, but I can easily see this format growing and growing. You know, we’ve recently heard of a new can shaped like a bottle bottle, haven’t we?

Susie: Indeed.

Peter: How’s about that for going a bit meta, you know, who knows where this little lead? Well done, well done. But there definitely seems to be momentum, doesn’t there?

Susie: Yeah. Okay, so. So shall we just recap on our three big questions?

Peter: Yeah.

Susie: Firstly, is canned wine any good?

Peter: yes. it absolutely CAN be delicious. Sorry, I saw your pun and I thought. I’m just gonna go. I’m gonna plumb those steps anyway. But no, it can be delicious. You know, it’s not all always, but when it’s good, it’s good people. You know, some wine purists turn up their nose. wine in a can. You know, one sommelier is quoted as saying, drinking canned wine is like drinking out of a trash can. But we completely disagree. You know, we definitely champion good canned wine, maybe with a decent glass to hand. It is, to be fair, to be fair. it makes wine more accessible, it makes wine more convenient, more fun, frankly. so cans are definitely part of wine’s future. They’re not the whole future, but they’re definitely going to be a significant part of it. So what about second question, why should we buy them if at all?

Susie: Yeah, we definitely should look to buy wine in cans as part of a healthy wine shopping basket. You know, bottles are still best for things like champagne and fine wines to age or ogle. bag in boxes for staple favourites you want to have in volume or for wine bars. But for trying new things for moderation, for convenience, sometimes for value, for doing the right thing in terms of, of carbon emissions. Even for looking cool, cans are great. So what about our last one? Which cans do you buy?

Peter: Well, I think, I think we’ve just covered that really, haven’t we? But, as you said, you know, we’ll put a full listing of our favourites on our website, show notes. Do check those out and you know, if you haven’t already, crack open a can or two and make up your own mind and let us know how you get on.

Susie: Just don’t take your can to a Marcel Lucont show. Or even worse, give him canned wine as a gift.

Peter: No, don’t do that.

Susie: On which note, huge thanks to our interviewees, Marcel Lucont, Richard Kelley, Louisa Payne and Morris Carr. If you’ve enjoyed this show, which has been a really fun one to make, please do recommend this podcast to your like minded family, friends and colleagues. We’d really appreciate it.

Peter: Yeah, we’ll put a bunch of resources, including links to studies we’ve cited in our show notes. We’ll also put up a fabulous video of Marcel’s Wine in a Can performance. It’s well worth seeing it on screen as well as listening to it. Here’s to that Margaux 84 in a can. Thanks so much for listening. Until next time, cheers!

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