Summary

Climate change is a worry. We get it.

But how to do something positive about it, especially as a wine lover?

After all, it’s not easy knowing which wines to buy to support producers doing the right thing.

Which is where the IWCA comes in handy – International Wineries for Climate Action.

This is a bunch of conscientious wine producers who have signed up to stringent, science-based carbon emission audits and committed to reaching net zero by 2050. As well as sharing info and generally being responsible about the environment.

It’s ground-breaking stuff and in this episode we get the low-down on the IWCA and hear about ingenious schemes to combat climate change from Familia Torres president and IWCA co-founder Miguel A Torres (the legend!), Sogrape fourth generation member Mafalda Guedes and Ramuntxo Andonegui of Domaine Lafage in Roussillon.

We also recommend our favourites from a recent IWCA ‘low emission wine’ tasting in London.

The word ‘extinction’ crops up.

But so do the words ‘resilience’, ‘happy’, ‘friendly’ and, ‘delicious’. So that’s nice.

Starring

• Miguel A Torres, Familia Torres
• Mafalda Guedes, Sogrape
• Ramuntxo Andonegui, Domaine Lafage
• Susie & Peter

Links

• If you’d like to see which wineries are members of the IWCA, this link will take you to a full listing of IWCA members. As well as those listed in the wine recommendations below, these include wineries like Spottswoode (USA), Sula (India), VSPT (Chile), Yealands (New Zealand), Ridge (USA), Château Troplong Mondot (Bordeaux), Famille Perrin (Rhône), Felton Road (New Zealand), Okanagan Crush Pad (Canada), Piper Heidsieck (Champagne), Opus One (Napa Valley), Symington (Portugal), Voyager Estate (Australia), Domaine Bousquet (Argentina), Hunt Country Vineyards (New York), Tikveš (North Macedonia).
• You can find our podcast on all major audio players: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google, Amazon and beyond. If you’re on a mobile, the button below will redirect you automatically to this episode on an audio platform on your device. (If you’re on a PC or desktop, it will just return you to this page – in which case, get your phone out! Or find one of the above platforms on your browser.)

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Wines

The following are a selection of wines from IWCA members that we’d highly recommend, having tasted them in June and/or July 2024

• Champagne Lanson Bio-Organic Champagne Extra Brut, France, 12.5%
• Familia Torres Clos Ancestral White 2023, Spain, 12.5%
• Kir-Yianni Assyrtiko The North 2023, Greece, 13.5%
• Hill Smith Family Estates The Contours Riesling 10-year museum release 2013, Australia, 12%
• Sogrape Quinta dos Carvalhais Encruzado 2022, Dão, Portugal, 13%
• Cambria Estate Winery Katherine’s Vineyard 2021 Chardonnay, Santa Maria Valley, Santa Barbara County, USA, 14%
• Domaine Lafage Moutou 2022 Parcelle du Crest, Viticulture Regenerative, Cotes Catalanes IGP, France, 13.5%
• Bodega Emina Ribera Emina Emoción 2019, Ribera del Duero, Spain, 14%
• Familia Torres Mas La Plana 2015, Penedès, Spain, 14.5%
• CVNE Imperial Rioja Gran Reserva 2017, Spain, 14%

Get in Touch!

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Or, better still, leave us a voice message via the magic of SpeakPipe:

Transcript

This transcript was AI generated. It’s not perfect.

Susie: Hello, you’re listening to wine Blast with me, Susie Barrie and my husband and fellow Master of wine Peter Richards. So welcome! And in this one, we’re hearing from an intrepid band of wine warriors taking the fight to climate change and offering us wine drinkers a way to minimise our drinking footprint, as it were.

Peter: Drinking footprint just sounds a bit weird, doesn’t it? It sounds like you’re drinking through your feet somehow,

Susie: It’s going to be a staggering path of footprints…

Peter: Well, maybe it’s just a sort of staggering wobbly footprint or a mouth print or something like that, or palate emissions. I don’t know what the best way you get the picture, whatever. It’s a David versus Goliath scenario. Climate change is posing an increasing, and in certain cases, almost existential threat to wine producers and regions around the world. But the question is, what can be done about it? You know, what is being done about it? And, what does that mean for us wine drinkers? Here’s a taster of what’s coming up.

Miguel Torres: We are late by at least 50 years. We should have started much earlier. Stopping the oil consumption. Yeah, I wish, you know, wine could be considered at one stage as a symbol of the resilience against the warming, as a, you know, a group of people that says, no, we have to stop that, we have to change our way of living.

Mafalda Guedes: The wine sector is very much affected by climate change and if we don’t address this now, possibly in the future, we can no longer produce wine as we know it. And if you miss this in the future, you’re missing out. And so I think wine has this role of educating people, of bringing people together, of talking about these issues and other issues in a, happy and friendly way.

Ramuntxo Andonegui: The biochar thing could reduce by 50% our carbon footprint, which is huge. It’s really exciting.

Susie: So there we heard from Miguel Torres of spanish wine group familia Torres,

Peter: The legend! What an honour having him on the podcast.

Susie: It’s amazing. It’s amazing. We also had Mafalda Guedes of portuguese wine group Sogrape, and Ramuntxo Andonegui of Domaine Lafage in France. We’ll be hearing more from them in due course. As well as recommending our favourite bottles from a seminal tasting of low emission wines in London.

Peter: Yep, lots to be getting on with, as ever. And, you know, always in a happy and friendly way, as my father put it so brilliantly there. No doom loops here. No, sir. So how about we set the scene before diving into our interior.

Susie: Okay, so we’re all aware, aren’t we, that climate change is a significant challenge. And it’s easy to focus on the negatives, but most of us actually want to do our bit to help turn things around while at the same time getting on with our lives and drinking delicious wine The only problem is, of course, it can be hard to know how to do that. Particularly, I think, when it comes to choosing the right wine

Peter: Yeah, yeah. I mean, most things we buy or consume or do have some sort of impact on the world around us. And wine is no exception, sadly. You know, on the one hand, wine growing can be good for the planet. For example, by, you know, drawing down carbon through the vines, which, you know, of course, remove carbon dioxide, CO2 from the atmosphere as part of photosynthesis, is what I remember from my biology lessons at school. And if I got that right, you know, and, you know, also things like fostering biodiversity in the vineyard and carbon capture in healthy soils, that will help. That’s good, right? But of course, wine can also be bad for the planet, you know, if pesticides and herbicides are used excessively or, you know, when heavy glass bottles shipped around the world create significant carbon emissions.

Susie: Yeah. So the question becomes, who is doing their bit to take responsible action on the wine front? And how can we support them as wine lovers? Can we play a part in helping create a better future for the planet through are, wine choices.

Peter: Exactly. wine has been called the canary in the coal mine for climate change. It’s a well known phrase, but precisely because tiny shifts in weather patterns can have a huge impact on the wines themselves. And it’s already happening, isn’t it? alcohol levels are going up as grapes get riper in warmer weather, increasingly erratic or extreme weather related events like hail, Frost. What do we see? Droughts.

Susie: We see everything. Fires, floods, floods.

Peter: Exactly. Literally all impacting wine production. Even the most classic of regions like Bordeaux, Burgundy and champagne are, ah, trialling new, and I suppose you could call them exotic grape varieties, because their current vines are struggling in the face of this new reality.

Susie: Yeah, I mean, wine producers the world over are already, as we can see, painfully aware of current and future challenges posed by climate change. But some, I think it’s fair to say, have been more proactive than others in doing something about it. And this is where we come on to, isn’t it? IWCA. International wineries for climate action.

Peter: Yeah, I mean, many wine businesses are doing their own thing when it comes to tackling climate change or addressing sustainability in general. But there are a few groups of producers who have banded together to take action in a collaborative way. And perhaps the one that’s caught the eye more than most is the IWCA. And there are a couple of reasons for that, aren’t there?

Susie: Yeah. Yeah. So the IWCA was founded by spanish wine group Familia Torres and us wine group Jackson Family Wines, in 2019. Since then, it’s grown in very impressive fashion to incorporate 49 wine companies, which themselves encompass almost 150 wineries across twelve countries, from Greece to India, covering more than 28,600 vineyards and 525 million litres of wine production.

Peter: You know, they estimate that to be around 2% of global wine production. Not massive.

Susie: It’s not bad.

Peter: It’s not insignificant, is it, really? And to have grown from two to 49 members in five years is pretty impressive, particularly. And this is the key point, particularly when you consider this really is the most notable bit about the IWCA, that the conditions for membership are remarkably stringent and demanding.

Susie: Yeah. So the IWCA focuses on one main aim, reducing carbon emissions. Members have to conduct third party audited greenhouse gas emission inventories at least once a year. They have to commit to reducing those emissions with a goal of reaching intermediate targets by 2030, and then net zero by 2050. As you say, the standards are rigorous and science based, and, members are certified as either applicant silver or gold, with increasingly strict criteria necessary for progression up that ladder.

Peter: And this is no greed greenwashing exercise. Quite the opposite, in fact. The IWCA specifically states that its members must not count carbon offset purchases towards their emissions targets, because their aim is to meaningfully reduce carbon emissions right across the core business, not just offset them elsewhere, which you see some companies just tout themselves as carbon negative or corporate company. All they’ve done is bung a whole lot of cash somewhere, and that’s not really dealing with the key issues.

Susie: It’s not really getting.

Peter: The IWCA is serious, rigorous stuff, independently verified on a regular basis.

Susie: Yeah, but it’s not just auditing and climate geekery and the like, is it? You know, one of the key things the IWCA does is act like a sort of a hub for sharing, information across members to promote best practise and collaborative support. basically, they want the wine sector to become a leader for positive climate action, and not just in terms of carbon emissions, but also sustainability and more broadly, you know, from soil health to biodiversity and social sustainability. And they hope to galvanise not only other wine producers, but also other, sectors to take positive action.

Peter: So, the IWCA recently hosted a tasting in London to celebrate their fifth anniversary, which they called their low emission wine tasting, which was quite an eye catching title. executive director Charlotte Hey pronounced, the wine sector is at risk of extinction. and she added that focusing on carbon emission reduction is the most pressing issue right now.

Susie: Yeah, and you caught up with a couple of the key people within the IWCA there, didn’t you?

Peter: Yeah, yeah, I sort of bundled a couple of poor souls into a side room teeming with microphones and sort of bombarded them with pointed questions. Absolutely. and first, that was Miguel a. Torres, or Miguel Torres senior, as we call him.

Ramuntxo Andonegui: Shh.

Peter: Don’t tell him That’s what we call him. We guess what we call him.

Susie: He doesn’t seem very senior for his age, I have to say.

Peter: Sprightly 82 year old. He’s the fourth generation president of familia Torres, not to be confused with his son, of course, Miguel Torres Maczassek Or junior, as we call him, the, fifth generation and current general manager. He’s the main. Current guy there, who we, of course, have had on the podcast before.

Susie: Well, clarified, all of that. Brilliant. so familiar. Torres, as I said earlier, are founder members of the IWCA and have been a pioneering force in the wine sector’s fight against climate change. Early adopters, we might call them, with Miguel Torres senior leading the charge and now devoting, actually, much of his energies to the cause in inspiring fashion.

Peter: Yeah. Torres are based in Pacs in Penedes in Catalonia, which is northeast Spain, but they’ve got wineries in other regions of Spain and also in Chile, and, of course, the US, with Marima Torres, which is a well known name there. they’re family owned and have some seriously impressive sustainability achievements under their belt. already they’ve had a 36% reduction in emissions since 2008. Huge investments in renewable energy. 95% of their bottles are lightweighted. they do carbon capture from ferment since 2021. They’ve been organic since 2008 and regenerative since 2020. I began by asking Miguel how urgent the need for action on climate change is.

Miguel Torres: Well, I think we are late. We are late by at least 50 years. We should have started much earlier, especially, stopping the oil consumption we use every day. 100 million of barrels of oil in the world. 100 million. That’s too much.

Peter: Has that changed? Is it getting less? Is it reducing?

Miguel Torres: Not yet. Not yet. Emissions, last year, 2023, until went up a little bit. So we are not still at this point of starting to descend.

Peter: So what impact is climate change having, on you, your wines and your business?

Miguel Torres: Well, we realised that in already beginning of this century that, climate change could be a great, challenge for our vineyards because, it changes the livium, the balance of the vines. So since the very early stages in 2010, we created a project called Torres and Earth with, three aspects. First one was to, adapt. We had to adapt to the new situation. We bought land as soon as we could in another part of Catalonia, near the pirinies, looking for cooler climates even. We went to Aragon, to Huesca, which is even cooler now. The grapes are. The vines are starting to produce there. So we adapted. Then, Second, we decided to mitigate our emissions. And, the main, effort was done in terms of, photovoltaic panels, especially in packs where we have the winery. And today we produce more than 50% of the electricity by us with the panels. Right. And we keep investing in that field because it’s a good investment, because afterwards you have savings in the build of the electricity. Well, and finally, also we thought of the idea of trying to influence other wineries. And I was happy to meet, Jackson people from California. They had exactly the same idea, same concerns. And my, the daughter of my sister, Marie Mar. Cristina, was working at this time in Jackson. So she got us in touch. We met in Brussels and we decided to launch our group, international wineries for climate action. This group, you know, we started five years ago. We were two of us. And little by little, we’re growing now. We are up to 150 wineries around the world committed to this idea of reducing emissions.

Peter: I mean, it’s a fantastic achievement in such a short space of time to have had such an impact. thinking back to when you formed the group, what was it in your mind that made you feel you needed to do something very significant about this issue?

Miguel Torres: Well, because, you know, it was very easy to understand that, the whirlwind was going to change our lives. The whirlwind was going to change the planet. It was going to destroy, you know, the life of thousands of persons and, change the viticulture, change the agriculture, create so many problems. So one had to be concerned. it was so serious.

Peter: But for many of us, we try to do something on a personal level. But you obviously wanted to do something at an institution, an industry level.

Miguel Torres: yeah, I wish wine could be considered at one stage as a symbol of the resilience against the warming. There’s a group of people that say, no, we have to stop that. We have to change our way of living.

Peter: You’ve also been using carbon capture. I’m intrigued by this from the fermentation. can you tell me a bit more about that? The technology where we are with that, how efficient it is?

Miguel Torres: Well, the wine when fermenting, does produce CO2, but the CO2, comes from a natural cycle because the vine, they already absorbed CO2 from the troposphere when, having photosynthesis. The idea was that we had to capture CO2 because we used to buy CO2 from the chemical industry as inert gas to avoid the oxidation of the finnish wines. And this was done already five years ago. Now all the tanks are covered with CO2 of. But then we are going, one step further because we have more CO2 available. And the question was, what could we make with this surplus of CO2? And there are many possibilities they have done already. A small experiment in the smaller scale. With CO2, you could eventually produce methane that could replace, oil or whatever. dco. Two, you could produce, sodium nitrates that are used in the glass, bottles. Companies manufacturers. Glass manufacturers. These not finalised, but they are working on that possibility. So there are other ideas to get a use of the CO2.

Peter: Is that easy technology to capture the carbon from ferments or is that quite hard?

Miguel Torres: No, carbon. Carbon. the carbon capture in the CO2 is not difficult. You just need, the right, connections and you store the gas in a plastic tank, huge plastic tank. And that’s it. The problem is afterwards, when you have to use it to reuse it.

Peter: What are the biggest challenges, in wine to reaching net zero?

Miguel Torres: There are many aspects to be considered, actually. I know that we have to replace all our cars by, electric cars. And then, we have to continue to assist mostly in our suppliers because, you know, in estimating the carbon footprint. You have three scopes. The most important scope is what you buy suppliers. Right. And we have to incentivize them to produce, lower carbon free footprint. This is one side. On the other side, we are, compensating emissions, but not compensating buying, you.

Peter: Know, how do you call carbon offset credits.

Miguel Torres: Offsets. Offsets. Now, that we don’t believe. Because sometimes, you know, it’s not that real. But we are planting trees on our own and we bought land in Patagonia seven years ago, 5000 ha in order to plant trees. But believe it or not, you know, after 200 ha planted, we had to stop it because a group of ecologists in the area were against it. They said we were changing the natural landscape we were not respecting.

Peter: You know, the, irony.

Miguel Torres: We had strong discussions with Norway, you know, so we sold that estate, and then we bought more land, in another part of Chile, more to the central part. And then we are planting trees again. These trees help us to reduce or to compensate a lot of, because every tree, when growing, takes five kilos of carbon from the troposphere. so that’s how we expect to.

Peter: Reach this, rather than buying carbon offset credits. You’re doing it yourself. M. You’re doing it yourself.

Miguel Torres: Absolutely.

Peter: On that note of carbon offsets, is there a danger of greenwashing in wine at the moment? Is that a danger for the industry?

Miguel Torres: I think, you know, it’s always that, such possibility. I think we are quite careful at home. I have a, manager, you know, involved only in this subject, and a small team, and especially companies, IWCA, you know, they are very careful about that. And, if it is one case, I think we will, you know, act. We will denounce it.

Peter: How can wine lovers, wine drinkers, best support positive action on climate change?

Miguel Torres: Buying our wines, Peter? Very simple. Now, actually, we are about to launch, a poster that will go in the supermarket and next to our wines, and I will say, you will see a wonderful vineyard, and on top it says, we care for the earth, so we make better wine Help us in producing mission, something like that. A clear message.

Peter: what message would you give to any wine producers out there listening to this?

Miguel Torres: Join us. Come and join IWCA. I don’t think the contribution is very expensive, and you will get a lot of ideas from us, and we can work together. And eventually, I think you will see, at the end of the day, that our consumers, they also appreciate that. I know I’ve seen some restaurants that already have it in the wine list, a page dedicated to the IWCA. So this may be the future, you.

Peter: Know, how do you see the wine world in 50 years time?

Miguel Torres: Very different. Very different. I see, appalachians of origin changing drastically, you know, their sense, because we cannot guarantee in 50 years time we’ll be producing wine exactly in the same places like today. Maybe we have to, you know, move away, look for cooler climates, look for a place with more water. And we will, because for us, it’s paramount to continue to produce quality. If there is a tourist label, the wine has to be good. As always, we cannot tell the consumers, sorry, you know, the warming is changing everything. wine will continue to be good. I hope so.

Peter: So it’s still a place for wine It might be made in slightly different places, but wine will remain important in people’s lives and in society. Miguel, thank you very much indeed.

Miguel Torres: You’re very welcome, Peter. Thank you.

Susie: He’s such a great guy, isn’t he? And he’s so knowledgeable, and obviously totally passionate about wanting to make the world and wine a better place. You know, I kind of picture him almost on the barricades with a huge banner saying, resist through wine

Peter: Yeah, in Catalan, in cattle.

Susie: I would even vaguely attempt with a.

Peter: Clenched fist, you know, bloodied face. I totally agree. You know, and Penedes where Torres is based, of course, has had huge problems with drought lately. but, you know, they’re really leading by example on this. And, you know, as he says, it’s likely the wine world will change drastically in the next 50 years. I think he’s being quite clear eyed about that. so we all need to get onto this like he is. And they are.

Susie: And interesting about that separate section on the wine list for IWCA members. I mean, that’s definitely one way to help make it easier to choose wine that promotes positive climate action.

Peter: Yeah, separate sections of the supermarket or whatever, you know, whatever.

Susie: Maybe they could have a slightly snappier, title for it. But I was also intrigued by the carbon capture thing. And I suppose that makes total sense, doesn’t it?

Peter: Absolutely. You know, the vines draw down carbon, but then it also gets released during fermentation. So, you know, if wine producers routinely captured and reused the carbon dioxide emitted. I agree, totally makes sense. Especially if it could also, as he said, be used as an alternative fuel, which sounded quite interesting. Or indeed, in the manufacture of glass, which, again, would save on other inputs. So, brilliant.

Susie: Right. Coming up, we’re hearing more intriguing opinions and schemes about fighting climate change, and we’re going to be recommending some top low emission bottles, too. By way of brief recap, so far, climate change is a huge threat to wine production, but a merry band of brave wine producers have joined together under the IWCA banner to reduce carbon emissions and go net zero. Buying their bottles means supporting properly accredited climate action, which is a good start.

Peter: Now, we’ve heard from IWCA founder Miguel Torres. and next up is Mafalda Guedes IWCA board member and fourth generation of the family behind Portugal based wine group Sogrape, which owns wineries in Portugal, Spain, Argentina, Chile, ah, and New zealand, among other things. I asked her about the urgency of tackling climate change.

Mafalda Guedes: I think it’s really urgent. It’s no longer nice to have, we have to work on this. the wine sector is very much affected by climate change. we depend on the climate and on nature to produce wines. And climate change impacts the quality of the grapes, the yield of the grapes. And if we don’t address this now, possibly in the future, we can no longer produce wine as we know it.

Peter: Yes, I was going to ask, I mean, could you give me some specific examples of the impact that climate change is having on you, your wines and your business?

Mafalda Guedes: Yes. We now have to mitigate and adapt to different, circumstances. In some places, it’s already difficult to use the same varieties that you were using in the past, because they’re no longer, working as well as they used to. but actually, we’ve been doing a lot of work in genetic diversity, and so we have a lot of use of clones. So now we use clones which adapt more and are more resilient to different types of soils and different types of climates. But I think in the past you could just do grape, wine naturally. Today you have to think more about it. You have to think about the grapes you’re using, the types of intervention you’re doing in the vineyard, because we have to work together, and find solutions to continue to produce quality wine

Peter: Can you give me an example of a great variety that sort of, you’re maybe thinking, oh, this is, it’s actually.

Mafalda Guedes: Like Touriga Nacional which is one of the most well known grape varieties. It’s actually a very good grape variety to adapt to different climates. So in Bordeaux, they are already testing, turriganacional. We planted turrigansional in Chile as well, because it’s very resilient and adapts to different climates. and I think this is an exercise that we have to do to understand which grape varieties are now adapting better to different circumstances.

Peter: Yeah. You’re also doing some work on water efficiency. Can you tell me a bit about that?

Mafalda Guedes: Well, we also depend on water. and, as temperatures rise, there’s a lot of problems with water. So we try to be as efficient as possible. We use, drip to drip irrigation. So we don’t always water the vineyards only when we need to, and drip by drip. So we have systems to understand when the vineyard is in stress, and then we have to water it. we have around 56% of our vineyards in Portugal are rain fed, so we use this water so, just.

Peter: Using rainwater as opposed to water.

Mafalda Guedes: So we need to find solutions where we can use them. In water possible. We recycle water in the wineries, in the vineyards. So, we try to be as efficient as possible. even in the dura region, where temperatures in the last ten years, rosé like, 1%, we managed to keep, the levels of water usage down.

Peter: Okay, that must be testing. and in terms of biodiversity, you’re also in the door working on biodiversity.

Mafalda Guedes: Yes. So we feel that it’s urgent to stop the loss of biodiversity and to recover what has been lost until now. and biodiversity is very important to keep emissions down, because you’re taking care of the ecosystems, you’re using nature, towards having a more sustainable production.

Peter: so, maybe you could tell me a bit about the IWCA and how joining has changed what you do.

Mafalda Guedes: So I think the ICA is very important. it brings companies together, and I think it creates a bit more awareness. So I think companies who are now part of the IWCA have a bigger awareness of what climate change is and the urgency in reducing our emissions. And this part of collaborating, working together, I think it’s very common to the wine industry. the wine industry enjoys coming together. We don’t share secrets. We want to work together to, to improve our impact here. also, there’s this part of benchmarking, which we can understand exactly what the objectives are, and we can work together, like an action plan to, help reduce our emissions, and the metrics that we have. So it’s very clear what the companies have to do, what we have to achieve and doing this together, I think it’s very important, and it sets an example for other sectors as well. So we’re all coming together on this.

Peter: But wine is quite a small and not hugely consequential part of the global economy. how can wine make a difference?

Mafalda Guedes: I think wine makes a difference because I think I see wine like, as a social enabler, and people enjoy, the friendship and the happiness that, come together with wine And if you miss this in the future, you’re missing out. And so I think wine has this role of educating people, of bringing people together, of talking about these issues and other issues, in a happy and friendly way.

Peter: Is there a danger, though, of greenwashing in Wine? Is this a thing? I mean, for example, on the website, the Idbosa website, it talks about avoiding purchasing carbon offset credits. as one potential, can you talk a bit about that.

Mafalda Guedes: Well, I think there’s the possibility of green washing in the wine sector, as in any other sector, in what you’re talking about, the avoiding, offsetting, we believe that we should do the best we can to reduce emissions. And by offsetting we’re not reducing our emissions, we’re just compensating, what we are doing and maybe we should avoid. And so we prefer to invest and to, focus our efforts in finding solutions to actually reduce the emissions rather than just, buying carbon credits to offset them. As a wine sector, we actually have a lot of people looking at us. Even though we’re not the hugest, the biggest sector, we have a lot of people looking on us. And it’s important that we lead by example, and demonstrate what we’re doing. We can’t ask that from the consumer, but we can educate and show the consumer what we’re doing.

Peter: What message would you give to any wine producers listening to this?

Mafalda Guedes: Well, I think that, for the wine producers, we no longer have an option to, embrace, taking care or reducing our carbon emissions. We have to look at, ah, what we’re doing. It’s important for the sector, it’s important for the business, it’s important for the consumer to be able to, savour wine in the future as it does now. So we have to work together. And I think that working together, and taking action is really crucial for the wine industry.

Peter: What one message would you give to our listeners, wine lovers, wine drinkers around.

Mafalda Guedes: The world enjoy wine and enjoy wine in a responsible way and understand how important the culture of wine is for humanity. Because wine has always been part of a legacy. It’s been being produced for so many years. And we have this in our sustainability programme. We, ah, want to carry on this legacy and this heritage of wine which is part of the culture. And so we have to learn how to continue to produce wine and to drink wine in a responsible way, and to bringing friendship and happiness to everyone through wine

Peter: Mafalda thank you very much indeed.

Mafalda Guedes: Thank you.

Susie: I love the way she sees winers as a social enabler that we will miss in the future if we don’t take more action now. Yeah, but that call to action can be done in a happy and friendly way.

Peter: they also do a lot on the R and D front, you know, and they’re looking at things like cans and other packaging. So it’ll be really interesting to see how they develop as a group as well, in the future. And it seems we’ll be seeing a lot more of Portugal’s flagship great Turriga Nacional in the future, too.

Susie: Absolutely, yeah.

Peter: Interesting, interesting. You know, good thing that it’s so delicious. It’s one of our favourites. Very great. But now I wanted to move from Portugal and Spain to France, if that’s okay. And to take one example of a specific region and a specific issue. so we’re talking Roussillon in the south of France, on the spanish mediterranean border, I suppose you’d say. And a pretty extreme drought that’s lasted a long time.

Susie: And this is all about biochar, among other things, isn’t it?

Peter: Yeah, it is, absolutely. and it’s intriguing, you know, to help manage drought and improve soils. so I spoke to Ramuntxo Andonegui which is a mouthful in itself, from domain Lafage in Roussillon, another family owned company. And I wanted to look at this almost like a little sort of case study of proactivity in the face of climate change. So Lafage joined the IWCA in 2022. So, relatively recently, I asked Ramuntxo what impact climate change was having on them as a business today.

Ramuntxo Andonegui: The climate change is, we are facing it directly. Roussillon is one of the regions that is really having a lot of difficulties, especially in the last two years when we have been lacking of water. And we are, well, we just got, 200 millimetres of rain in the last year, which is, very similar to what you can get, in Jordania or Maraca. So you can imagine that this is something that it’s a day to day, reality. so we believe that, we have to find solutions, not, only for us, but we also plan this for all the rest of the colleagues that we have. it looks like we are a little bit the first one to face such a reality in France.

Peter: So you are the guinea pig, as it were. You are experiencing climate change. The most extreme effects of climate change in France is this potentially an existential threat to Roussillon wine that if you’re not getting enough rainfall, you just simply won’t be able to carry on making Wine?

Ramuntxo Andonegui: Probably. Well, I’m sorry to be so negative when I’m saying that. but at the same time, I think, the way we are now acting and, I think the IWC thing is really, giving us, the opportunity to think differently and to try to find solution, which I think is the positive attitude we need to have if we want to consider a future for that region.

Peter: So we talked about drought it’s been very serious for the last few years in your region. Can you just tell us a little bit, give us a few examples of how you are trying to combat that. You talked about solutions. What are you doing, short of doing a rain dance, what are you actually doing in the vineyards to try to help situations?

Ramuntxo Andonegui: We do a lot of things. we do a lot of things. one of the big things that is now a reality and really new is that I told you, we are ah. A kind of laboratory for the french government. The minister of the ecological transition came to our place just to say, okay, I can put money on the table, to finance some projects and you just have to write the projects. So basically we have watch, ah, recycling, central that is close to the winery around four or five kilometres. That is normally rejecting the water to the Mediterranean Sea. not completely clean, but in good conditions to be rejected to the mediterranean sea. And instead of rejecting it to mediterranean sea, we are really having a project with the local authorities to take advantage of that water to regate probably 50 acres of vineyards. so that’s the first step. that I think is very positive because in a way this is also going to let us think about regenerative agriculture. That is also going part of the project to be a little bit more With a better solution in terms of verticulture for the drought. And we are also working very much on the biochar. The biochar is really one topic that we are really working very hard on. but we also use cover crop. Cover crop is also giving us some extra advantage in terms to face the drought because this is also one of the characters, of our region that we are a drought. But once we have some water, we are talking more about storm than the really small rains that you can get there. So it’s creating erosion. It’s creating. And the water is just not, you know, absorbed by the vineyard. And the idea is that we want to take more advantage of that water that is coming. Sorry. And bioshar is helping for that. Cover crop is helping for that. Wow. Many things.

Peter: Tell me about biochar. I think it’s a really interesting aspect of what you do. Could you just very briefly sum up where it comes from, what it is and what it does, how you’re using it?

Ramuntxo Andonegui: Well, the biochar is At the very first step, what we tried is to really face the problem of the drought. With it. And the biochar is we take some stalks from the vineyard when we prune. And we do a prerecorded, burn with it. and this is coming. I mean, the stalks from the vineyard are burned to with a pyrolysis action, which means that we are burning without oxygen. So we store the carbon on the stalks there and then we curse them, we mix them with compost and then we put it in the middle of the vineyard. That means that we can really store the carbon, in the soil. And that means at the same time that the biochar is helping us to retain water, because the carbon is going to retain the water. It will be also, multiplying, or giving us more, organic material into the soil, because we will get more bacteria, more fungus. so the organic material is going to be increased very much in the soil, which is also going to help us for the regenerative we are really working on. So that’s that. And we can, it’s a very local circular system, which is, I think, very, very interesting too, because it’s coming from avid, yet we can also use a biomass that is created in other places around where we are. And we have a project with a company, a local company that needs also this, source of energy by the combustion of the biochar to dry materials and that. So it’s a very multi company, interest in developing this at a local scale. And it’s really something extremely positive because this is, in a way, if we, and this is one of the IWCA, programme, achievements or goals is to measure the carbon footprint. And the bioshock could reduce by 50% our carbon footprint, which is huge.

Peter: So that works on lots of different levels. That’s a really intriguing, it’s really exciting, really exciting.

Ramuntxo Andonegui: The only thing today that we are having some problems with is to make our own biochar. That’s really what we need to, and we would like to, but we need to invest in a new machine to create it. And we are talking with Germans, with some French, some Chinese, people to create machinery, and hopefully we will find a solution, in a few months.

Peter: How much would it cost?

Ramuntxo Andonegui: Well, it depends. If you talk to the Germans, we are talking about 3 million, with French, it’s 1.5. And actually the Chinese, they can make it a little bit cheaper, but then we need to adapt it. We are really having, this is today we are, still studying options.

Peter: And Roussillon, in 50 years, how will it have changed?

Ramuntxo Andonegui: Wow, that’s a really big question. because, as I told you, this situation right now is not extremely positive. the drought we are facing is really, becoming, scary. I think that we can have solutions. I think that we have very, distinctive wines that are great to discover. And, so there is no doubt for me, we need to be part of the wine world. now, the thing that we, there are, options. There are really solutions. Ah, the use of greywater in Israel is really high in Spain, too. The thing is that in France, we never needed to have it. And now we discover that, climate change is really, forcing us to see that and to find this solution. But, well, if, the same way that we are inspired by other producers on the IWCA, I think that French has to be inspired by what is being done in other countries to really, you know, have the right water for the agriculture. And, it’s, you know, in roussillon, actually, if, we don’t have vineyards, we will have probably a lot of actors with solar panels. I’m not saying that I’m against the solar panels. I’m just saying that I would like to have, a big balance between that and having, attractive landscape with some, you, know, agriculture, trees, birds and everything. And this is, I think, one of, pillar of the tourist, approach that we have here. Because if we just have solar panels, nobody is going to come to our place.

Peter: So some solar panels are okay, but as long as there are some vineyards in there, too, I want to thank you very much indeed.

Ramuntxo Andonegui: My pleasure.

Susie: So using biochar could reduce their carbon footprint by 50%. That is massive, isn’t it?

Peter: You know, interesting what he says about how biochar not only helps them reduce their carbon footprint, it also helps with water retention. So combating drought and soil health, which, again, helps with carbon retention and biodiversity. So these things are positive in a number of ways. It’s not just reducing carbon emissions, it’s actually having a much broader effect.

Susie: I reckon we need to recommend some wines, don’t we? now, these are all wines from IWCA members. So by buying them, you are supporting producers who are committed to reducing their carbon emissions in a transparent and accountable way. So it’s a double win. Not only are they delicious, but they’re virtuous, too.

Peter: And, they’re very refreshing. We will put a full listing on our website. Show notes, so as not to bang on too long here. but we wanted to just pull out a couple of highlights, didn’t we?

Susie: We did indeed. I’m already drinking one of the highlights and let’s kick off with it because it’s bubbles and I love bubbles. So this is the champagne Lanson bio organic champagne, extra brut. Ah.

Susie: It looks really different from their other wines, certainly in terms of its label. and it tastes different too. It’s a bit more like a grower champagne, isn’t it? Ah, really characterful. Full of yeasty, bruised red apple buttery pastry flavours. And it definitely has that tangy acidity that’s a hallmark of long son, but it’s been aged for five years and the base here is 2018, so it’s got that extra complexity and roundness. It does finish quite dry, as you’d expect. An extra brute, but it’s very stylish.

Peter: Yeah. yeah, yeah.

Susie: Really got lots to say for itself.

Peter: Delicious. so my recommendation is from Familia Torres, Clos ancestral White, 2023. It’s a brenda of Xarel-lo that well known catalan grape, with one that’s much less known forcada. So forcada is a grape that was recovered by Torres from among the hundreds of mediterranean varieties that disappeared effectively after phylloxera in the 19th century. It’s a late ripener with keen acidity, so it’s really good in a warming climate. And this one has tonnes of, you know, fresh green fruit, herbal hints and a really crunchy, serious finish. It’s not just fruity and simple, it’s actually got some real serious weight to it, so it’s really lovely stuff.

Susie: It is very good, isn’t it? so my next tip is another white. It’s more familiar territory, though. A California Chardonnay. The Cambria estate, Catherine’s Vineyard, 2021, from Santa Maria Valley. Now, this is a Jackson family wine and it is just delicious. You’ve got lovely lemon zest and butterscotch flavours. It’s juicy, but it’s also rounded and quite rich. You know, it’s got good body and intensity, but also elegant freshness, which we need in, you know, new world chardonnays. Need that. It’s very well balanced and just really well made.

Peter: Yeah, absolutely, enjoyable. Totally agree, that one. So I was going to recommend just one red at this point, but, I’m afraid I can’t help but sneak in another cheeky white. Just going to keep talking, so you can’t talk over me. Stop me. The cheeky white is the Sogrape quinta dos carvalhai. So maybe I shouldn’t have recommended it because I can’t pronounce it. it’s tangy and yeasty and different and. Yum. I love that one.

Susie: It’s an encrussado grape variety indeed.

Peter: and the red I was supposed to be touting, someone safer territory here was Domaine lafage moutou 2022. It’s a beautifully lifted and scented grenache with a touch of syrah. It’s from Roussillon, obviously. We could have featured this easily in our Garnett show episode. It is absolutely gorgeous stuff.

Susie: Okay, so there we have it. As you said. Do see our website for all our, IWCA records recommendations by way of closing summary. It’s not easy making wine choices to support positive climate action. But one way to do that is to buy from producers who are members of the IWCA, an organisation, dedicated to reducing carbon emissions through strict science based methodologies and increasingly creative solutions. As we’ve discovered, their wines can be pretty tasty, too.

Peter: Indeed they can. So, cheers to that. So, thanks to Miguel a. Torres Mafalda Guedes and Ramuntxo Andonegi. Also to Charlotte Hey and the IWCA generally. And, of course, thanks to you for listening. until next time, cheers!