Susie & Peter / Podcast Episodes  / Season Eight / Bordeaux on the Brink Part 1

Summary

NB: this episode contains sensitive material, because we do discuss suicide. If this is relevant to you in any way, seeking help is critically important – links as below.

Bordeaux is one of the most famous wine regions of all. Yet this jewel in the French wine crown has been having a wretched time of late, afflicted by a whole bunch of problems, from rampaging wildfires to plummeting consumption, land prices tanking, production plunging and general climate change chaos.

It’s being described as the worst crisis for Bordeaux since phylloxera and the Great Depression – so no wonder producers are feeling the pressure, in some cases with tragic outcomes.

Bordeaux’s proud vineyard is being severely pruned – down from 109,000 hectares in 2023 to 86,000 hectares in 2026, a severe contraction of more than 20% in just three frantic years. Olives, goji berries and apples are replacing vines.

‘The landscape of Bordeaux is changing,’ notes respected Bordeaux-based writer Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre, who has some eye-opening details to share in this episode about all these issues and more.

We also discuss how Bordeaux is responding to this crisis, including topics like the controversial new ‘Bordeaux Claret’ category, surprising innovations on the production front, and wine tourism, in a concerted effort to craft a brighter future.

Starring

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre

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Links

  • Our episode Drop Stop: Wine’s Big Water Issue is focused on Bordeaux, looking at the controversial topic of irrigation, featuring the likes of Lafleur, Olivier Tregoat and Kees Van Leeuwen.
  • We also reference (and will be dropping some archive tasters on our feed for) our previous Bordeaux mini-series – the first one of which was Bordeaux in 2021
  • Thanks to Gavin Quinney at Chateau Bauduc, one of whose maps we use as a chapter image in this episode
  • Chloé mentions a fair few producers in the course of our chat, so here are a few links along those lines:
  • Château de Cranne (inc Sichuan pepper wine!)
  • Maison du Berneuilh (Amandine Noriega)
  • Château Roland la Garde
  • Regarding ‘vière’, Chloé recommends the Saint Barbe Azimutée from Château Sainte Barbe
  • She recommends the sparkling Chardonnay from Château Laurence
  • For clairet (ie the rosé – and NOT ‘Claret’), she recommends Château Grimont and Château Boutinet
  • The ‘Hermitagé’ style she mentions is Bouffonne by Maison Advinam
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Suicide helplines & resources

Below are some resources for those in crisis. If you, or anyone you know, are struggling, reaching out and seeking help is so, so important. Help is out there.

France (from Chloé)

  • Soldarité Paysans Aquitaine
  • Free, confidential, 24-hour national French number to prevent suicide: 3114
  • Agri’écoute (French number for farmers and rural workers to talk with a psychologist and prevent suicide): 09 69 39 29 19
  • MSA suicide prevention

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Transcript

This transcript was AI generated. It’s not perfect.

Intro, Welcome & Preface

Susie Barrie MW 0:05

Hello, this is Wine Blast: I’m Susie. He’s Peter. We’re both Masters of Wine who happen to be married to each other. Still, even after over 180 episodes! Beautiful. The wine helps, I think… Now this is season eight, and we’re launching headlong – into Bordeaux.

Peter Richards MW 0:23

Yes, hello, welcome! It’s great to have you here. Thanks for joining us. We have our claret coloured jumpsuits on! Well, metaphorically speaking, uh, I would like to see that happen. But uh Bordeaux is of course one of the most famous names in wine, but it’s been having a wretched time of it lately. It’s the big story in wine right now. So we wanted to zoom in and talk to the people on the ground about the very real challenges – and the bright spots on the horizon too. Here’s a taster of what’s coming up:

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre 0:55

It’s like we have a wine crisis, but it’s also a human crisis. Bordeaux has known three important big crises. The first one was Phylloxera, the second one was the Big Depression in the 30s, and now. And it’s true that the landscape of Bordeaux has really changed. On a short term, it’s not going to be bright. But to acknowledge that there is a crisis, and to try to make changes, is the start of the recovery.

Susie Barrie MW 1:28

Strong words from Chloe Cazaux Grandpierre, respected writer, sommelier, educator, and wine tourism guide based in Bordeaux, author of 111 Vins de Bordeaux a ne pas Manquer, or 111 Bordeaux Wines Not to Miss, a brand new book that is hot off the press in France. Chloe is a font of knowledge on all things Bordeaux, and she is our inside source for this intriguing episode, which is teeing up a slightly different schedule for us, isn’t it?

Peter Richards MW 1:58

Yeah, yeah. So in the spirit of total transparency, uh we’d originally envisaged this being just the one episode, our season eight opener, uh, but it rapidly became clear that one episode couldn’t contain all the incredible material we were receiving. So we’re going to do a kind of condensed mini-series, um, two episodes on Bordeaux in quick succession, uh, with Chloe the focus in this one. And for the next one, it’s Apple boss turned Saint Emilion vintner Laurent David, a man full of fresh, frank, and fascinating views on how Bordeaux needs to change.

Susie Barrie MW 2:29

After that, we’ll aim to drop a couple of archive tasters, as per the plan announced in our season eight trailer of another mini-series on Bordeaux we did back in 2021-22. Then we’ll be on with an exclusive subscriber release before another series of quickfire episode and archive taster drops, all with the aim of keeping you fully entertained!

Peter Richards MW 2:51

Well, very clear, all that, hope so. Anyway, that one final thing we need to do before we get going is to mention that this episode contains sensitive material, because we do discuss suicide. Um we just wanted to say this before we started, in case it might be an issue. And of course, if this is relevant to you in any way, seeking help is critically important. So we’ve put lots of links in our show notes.

Wildfires & climate chaos in 2026

Susie Barrie MW 3:14

So: Bordeaux, a huge historic wine region, as relevant and prominent today as it was 400 years ago, speckled with the gold dust of the Grand Cru Classés and some of the finest wines on the planet, but also home to thousands of smaller, more humble producers. It all seemed to be going so well, until suddenly it wasn’t, which is where we find ourselves now.

Peter Richards MW 3:40

As for why, well, that’s what we’re exploring in this episode. But a brief summary would include things like tumbling wine consumption, particularly in France, and with red wine the worst affected of all. This has led to vineyards being ripped out, land prices plummeting, production dipping, and wine growers facing financial hardship. On top of this have come further challenges in the form of climate change ( think: heat waves, drought, hail, spring frost and floods), the anti-alcohol movement, global conflict, and political isolationism.

Susie Barrie MW 4:11

And then in 2022, but even more intensely in 2026, wildfires in the Landes, the huge forest covering nearly one million hectares to the west and southwest of Bordeaux, literal conflagrations capturing the region’s metaphorical struggle all too eerily, with French President Emmanuel Macron dubbing the July 2026 fires ‘the worst crisis the country has tackled since World War II’, with more than 220,000 people evacuated, 2,750 firefighters mobilised, several deaths, and a huge community effort launched in solidarity.

Peter Richards MW 4:53

So that’s where we’re going to start. I asked Chloe, who lives in Bordeaux, to tell us about the experience of the wildfires, or mega -feu, as it became known.

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre 5:02

It was very scary, and we had in the past very serious fires, but this one like it started on the 22nd of July, close in fact to the ocean side, and it was like enormous. It was uh like the firefighters were overwhelmed, and everybody was overwhelmed. We had 42,000 hectares that have burned of forests, and we also have an average, I think, of like 200 houses that have been uh destroyed by the fires, and uh it was all over the news uh internationally, obviously. It was extremely scary, and a lot of people also have been evacuated. It was like the biggest evacuation in France since World War II. So, yes, it was very scary, and uh we were very afraid. So, yeah, it was I’ve never seen that, and I hope I will never see that again. But um it’s it seems that um you know uh things are changing, climate change obviously is a huge uh topic, and um I we will probably see uh other fires if also we continue to have such uh uh dry and warm summers because it was uh it was crazy in uh in Bordeaux. Crazy this summer.

Peter Richards MW 6:36

Moving to the wine community, what what do we know so far? Uh we’re we’re speaking in late August 2026. What do we know about how it’s impacted wine growers in Bordeaux?

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre 6:45

So, first of all, the fires were quite far away from in fact the vineyards, so no vineyards have been directly touched by uh the fires. Uh obviously, some winemakers had in fact their houses uh burned, but not the vineyard. Then in Bordeaux, we are talking about smoke taint, but for the moment um the different uh oenologist consultants are saying that it was not long enough, and I mean the fire, even if it was uh long, but it was not long enough and intense enough uh and close enough the vineyards to have an impact. And also it was in July, so the berries were still um green, it was you know starting to change colour, but in fact, the impact of smoke taint is much more um is bigger if the berries are purple than when they’re green. So for the moment, we are hoping that we won’t have smoke taint in the vineyards that were the closest, in fact, of Bordeaux area, because obviously in Saint-Emilion uh it was quite uh like uh far. So it was really part of the left bank uh area, so I will say the south of the Medoc uh and also the Graves area, which were in fact the closest from the clouds and from the smoke. But uh we will only know uh when the winemaking will be done because apparently smoke taint is only detectable through, in fact, the wine process, the winemaking process.

Peter Richards MW 8:32

So we’ll only actually have concrete uh evidence or answers to that question about smoke taint when the wines start to be made. But it seems at this stage that there people are saying it was too early and it wasn’t the smoke wasn’t intense enough to cause serious issues. Yes. So you you know there were wildfires near Bordeaux in 2022, weren’t there? Now again, I mean it seems that with climate change, you know, fires are going to be more frequent in the future all over the planet and and all over Europe, particularly. I mean, what’s the best way for Bordeaux to to cope with this?

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre 9:02

Oof, uh, this is like a huge uh question. This is a hot, hot potato. I I’m not a uh a professional for uh like uh forest management, but uh in definitely the forest uh has to be uh well management has to uh take into account, in fact, this wild fires now. They also have to take into account uh the very warm, in fact, uh summers that we we have. Like just to give you an example, I remember I was in Margaux, wine area, and I was in Chateau Margaux, um, and I was with uh guests uh from the US. Uh it was so this July. I had 46 degrees Celsius. 46. And we had in fact all the summer was like so warm like this. Uh it was just insane. So uh and we we’re not really uh used to this type of uh warm weather. I mean, every summer obviously in Europe you you do have very warm uh days, but uh it was also very warm during the night, and we had no rain. No rain. So uh we we we need indeed like you say, we need to to adapt, we need to change, but it’s uh we need to talk about it, we need to face also the reality of it, we need to accept, um, and we need to find uh solutions. We are this vintage 2026 is quite harsh. I just have seen this morning on Instagram one of uh the winery I am following. It’s uh Chateau Rolland-Lagarde in uh in the Blaye area. They have they had hail yesterday.

Peter Richards MW 10:51

They had hail?!

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre 10:52

Yes. We have like we we had huge storms. It’s like in Bordeaux, uh, like uh three days ago it was uh 30 degrees Celsius and now it’s 22 degrees Celsius and raining, and we had storms and they had hail. I know in Saint Estephe also they had hail a few days ago, so you just: woo! 2026!! But it’s like this every vintage.

Susie Barrie MW 11:19

Okay, so I think we need to take a breath uh from rampaging wildfires to 46 degrees to hail. No wonder Chloe uses words like ‘insane’ and ‘crazy.’

Peter Richards MW 11:30

Yeah, I mean apparently July was the warmest month in France since 1900. Wow. Which I mean presumably is when records began… I don’t know, either way. Harvesting started uh for this vintage 2026 in early August, the earliest ever. Early August. But I completely agree with Chloe that you know the first thing to do is acknowledge this is happening and face the reality of the situation. And funnily enough, that’s a strikingly similar phrase, if you remember, to what was used by Omri Ram uh at La fleur on our recent episode about Wine’s Big Water Issue and the controversial topic of irrigation, which of course touches on these very same issues. Of course, you know, there are some people who are burying their heads in the sand over this, but there are also those who see the urgent need for adaptation and and change.

Susie Barrie MW 12:15

Yeah, I mean Chloe mentioned that twelve separate bordeaux appellations sought emergency permissions to irrigate during the 2026 vintage, and she says ‘it’s a debate that needs to be had.’ She also said that every year since 2017 has seemed to suffer from spring frost, another cruel manifestation of climate change, with some growers, even in the most prestigious appellations like Pomerol, wondering whether to just throw the towel in as a result. Um and then the rains and rot in a vintage like 2024, meaning some growers had to abandon organic or similar programs to save their harvest… Y

Falling consumption + vineyards ripped out + money pressures = tragic results

Peter Richards MW 12:50

Yeah, so you’ve got climatic challenges testing wine growers and negatively impacting yields. Um I also then asked Chloe about the other challenges currently facing wine growers in Bordeaux. She said ever-increasing competition in global wine, uh, international political crises fuelling a sense of instability, hence people not wanting to kind of splurge on luxury stuff, issues with key markets uh for Bordeaux, like the UK as a result of Brexit, and the US tariffs. Um, and of course, Bordeaux exports 43% of its production, so that’s a big, big old chunk. And then she touched on changing consumer trends. Uh I asked her to give us a sense of these shifting consumption patterns.

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre 13:31

So I have a very interesting number, uh, which is that in France from 1960 to 2020, the consumption has dropped by 60%.

Peter Richards MW 13:46

60%?!

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre 13:47

Yes.

Peter Richards MW 13:48

Is that just red wine?

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre 13:49

It’s especially for red wine, but not only for red wine. This is like the the the consumption of wine in France dropped by 60%. And it’s a trend worldwide because uh since 2018 the consumption has been decreasing by 14 uh percent, so one four. And in Bordeaux, like you said, we are massively producing red wine. 88% of the acreage of Bordeaux is for black grape varieties.

Peter Richards MW 14:23

So 88% of Bordeaux is planted to produce red wine, but red wine is the is the wine consumption is the wine uh style which is declining the most in consumption. As a result, vineyard prices are falling, vines are being ripped out across the region. Oh yes. Again, can you give us an idea of the scale of that trend of of um of vineyards coming out?

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre 14:43

Oh yeah, so this is this is uh quite scary. So as a result, indeed, we have a huge vine pool scheme that is going since 2023. So it’s what we call a plan d’arrachage sanitaire. So it was sanitary in 2023. So in 2023 in Bordeaux, we had 109,000 hectares of vines. We dropped uh to 100,000 in 2024, and we have 86,000 today. So this is like the lowest level, I mean um acreage that we have since 1986. So we had a first vine pull-out in 2023 that was managed by the state and the CIVB, which is uh the Conseil de l’Interprofession des Vins de Bordeaux. And so we had 9,500 hectares, and it was the winemakers were paid 6,000 euros per hectare to pull out their vine. In autumn 2024, we had the second wave, uh, and it was allowed by the European Commission, and the total of the envelope was 120 million euros max. Uh, and so it was 4,000 euros uh for an hectare. And in February of this year, so I hope you’re following..!

Peter Richards MW 16:21

Oh god, yeah, absolutely. This is fascinating.

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre 16:24

In February 2026, we had the the call for the third vine pull-out scheme, and it was still um 4,000 euros per hectare, and the envelope was also 120 uh million euros maximum, and so obviously, winemakers that wanted to pull out like everything were um the priority, and so today it’s 86,000 hectares in Bordeaux, and uh the hectares that have been pulled out they are not replanted, it can be planted with other uh things, like we do have a trend with uh olive trees in Bordeaux currently, but we have also apple trees, we do have polownia trees, it’s an Australian uh tree, uh which is catching a lot of CO2, so this is good for the planet. I’ve seen also uh goji berry, and I’ve seen also some currant black currant. So there are a lot of um things that you can replant if you want, or you just leave it like this. Uh, and it’s true that the landscape of Bordeaux has really changed. Like if you if you come to Bordeaux in the vineyard in some areas, because obviously some areas are more touched by the crisis, so Blaye, Bourg, Entre-deux-Mers have been like uh heavily touched by this crisis, and that the landscape is uh uh is changing also. So these are the the numbers that uh yes I have, and that they’re official numbers.

Peter Richards MW 18:05

Big numbers. Um the landscape of Bordeaux is changing. Those are those that’s a very significant statement. You call it a crisis. Um, I think that’s entirely apt. I mean, do you think um just on those numbers, do you think that trend is going to continue? Do you think we’re gonna see more uh vines coming out in due course? Where where might this end up, do you think?

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre 18:24

I don’t know, but uh apparently we need we should need to pull out the same numbers for Bordeaux to to be afloat. So I think in the in the future I won’t be surprised if we have like a fourth uh wave of uh vines that are pulled out, yes. And I I told you it’s you the why the winemakers are paid 4,000 euros for an hectare. And you were talking about the drop of the price land, and I can give you some numbers also that are like official for this um this vintage, but if you are like in in Bordeaux, if you want to buy one hectare of like Bordeaux in AOC, it’s between 4,000 and 6,000 euros. It can be lower if the quality of the terroir is um is so so. But we were talking about Blaye, it’s 13,000 euro for an hectare, Bourg is 16,000 euro for an hectare, Castillon is like 20,000. Obviously, it’s increasing. Uh if you go to Pessac-Léognan, it’s uh 600,000. Uh if you uh go to Pomerol, it’s between 2 million to 7 million euro for an hectare. Uh Pauillac is uh 3 million, Saint E million, uh it can go up to 5 million if you are buying the land of a Grand Cru Classé. So it gives you an idea. But uh yeah, 4,000 to 6,000 euros for a Bordeaux uh very basic terroir. You see, that is the price basically of what is given to pull out. I mean the minimum price.

Peter Richards MW 20:11

So those sums, yeah, those sums don’t really add up, do they, for growers? If you’ve if you’ve got financial problems, um and basically you paid what you’re being paid to take out your vines, more or less what you paid, if not less than what you paid for the land in the first place. That puts you in a very difficult financial position, doesn’t it?

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre 20:27

Yes, because this 4,000 it’s for you to pull out the vines. So you need to find someone and to pay someone to pull out your vines with this 4,000. So basically, your land is worth nothing. So you you can see why, in fact, this crisis also is uh, yeah, it’s a crisis.

Peter Richards MW 20:47

Yeah, and I think that’s the right word. I mean, you you know, what you’re describing is serious financial difficulties for for many uh wine producers. You’ve got falling sales, vineyards disappearing, vineyard prices plummeting, climate change and wildfires on top of this, too. So are you know, are some wine producers in Bordeaux struggling to see a viable future?

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre 21:05

Yes, because um, especially for the young generation, for the generation that wants to take over, because you have also to remember that Bordeaux is one of the oldest places to produce wine on this planet. It’s not the oldest, but it’s one of them. And so um we have vineyards that have been transmitted generation after generation, and some uh some winemakers they’re they’re like quite afraid also to take over today because they don’t want to be the one that will crush, even if it’s not their fault. They’re not the one to but it’s it’s the the the situation that is destroying, in fact, this uh this family vineyards. But uh it’s true that uh the young generation is quite afraid to take over because you take over obviously uh the work. And we remember that even if it’s winemaking, wine growing, it’s being a farmer. And obviously I’m not talking about a grand cru classé that can also hire a lot of people to take care of their vineyards. You have a general manager, technical director, winemaker, and vineyard manager, but for a small winery, because in Bordeaux, the average size of a winery is like 20 hectares. And we have, I think, today 4,300, I think, wineries. So not all of them obviously are grand classes or have like a very famous name or located in a very famous wine area. So uh yeah, the young generation is also going to take over the work, and it’s a lot of work, and they’re going also to take the debt that everything is transmitted, the land, but also all the past, the economical past.

Peter Richards MW 22:57

So you’re talking about financial pressures on people, you’re talking about the weight of history on people. And of course, we we often talk about Bordeaux and we talk about the top 2%, the top five percent, as you said. Actually, there’s a whole world of producers, smaller producers who aren’t so well known, who’s it’s not so easy to sell the wine. And I guess what brings this situation into sharp relief is that there have been a number of suicides, haven’t there, among Bordeaux wine producers lately. Can you just tell us about that? Possibly, I know it’s hard to speculate, but why that’s happening and how the wine community is reacting to that.

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre 23:29

It’s obviously a very sensitive uh subject, and I want to talk about it with the fullest like respect for people that have been touched by uh these dramatic events, but indeed in um in Bordeaux and in the wine world, we have seen uh a number, and I don’t know if it’s an increase in number because we don’t have a lot of numbers, official numbers, but uh at least we have been talking about it. And uh to my knowledge, um in 2025 in Bordeaux, three winemakers have committed suicide. And we were talking, you know, about debts. Um, the last one, who sadly took his own life, had what we call in French an entreprise individuelle. So I think in in English you are translated by a ‘sole trader.’ Um, and so he was personally linked, in fact, to the debt. So the only one way to make the debt disappear is for the when the person is disappearing. So some winemakers don’t see how to get out of this. So we had it with three men this uh year, so it was in the news. We had one in May 2025 in Castillon, one in September 2025 in Entre-De-Mers, he was 37 years old, and one in December 2025 in Médoc. So you see it’s also spread around, in fact, the the Bordeaux uh AOCs, so it’s mainly men, and I think because some wineries talked about other suicides, but it was not uh on the press, so I I don’t know. Uh but officially we had yes, three people that committed suicides. Um, so it’s really it’s like we have a wine crisis, but it’s also a human crisis, and um we we know that in France, so I don’t know in the UK, but in France uh the farmers are um three times more likely to commit suicide than any other field, especially for men. It’s what is said in the different uh studies, but it’s in we have an average of 300 uh farmers that are committing suicide per year in France, so it’s almost one per uh day. And these numbers are also uh official number, but we do have also solidarity. Um we do have uh, for instance, an association that is uh Solidarité Paysan d’Aquitaine. Um but Solidarité Paysan is uh all over uh France and it helps also uh the the farmers and the winemakers uh to um not be alone also because it’s true that when you’re working in uh in a company, you do have co-workers and you can chat and you can talk about your your problems if you want, but when you’re um in a small uh vineyard, uh you’re doing everything by yourself and you don’t necessarily have someone to speak about this issue. So it’s also to fight against uh exclusion.

Peter Richards MW 27:02

So is is that a service that someone can uh a winemaker in France can access to get in touch with them if they feel um like they’re in trouble?

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre 27:11

Yes, so there is uh in fact this uh their website, and uh I know they do have also like you do have a number uh that you can call if you want to talk or if you have like uh dark uh thoughts and stuff like this.

Peter Richards MW 27:26

And it does sound like um obviously there’s been a community reaction to this as well, because the one of the first, the most important things is to talk about this, yes, get it out in the open and actually acknowledge it. Um, and and then of course say, well, how do we react to this responsibly? How do we help and how do we help those people who might be feeling desperate?

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre 27:44

I think it’s um it’s very important to because it’s a very taboo uh subject, and you know, I was not really aware about this topic, because it’s true that in the mind of people, when you are a winemaker, you’re touching, you know, wine, it’s like beautiful, it’s uh you’re it’s not like when you’re working with cattle or you know, people have a different image, but winemakers are still, in fact, farmers.

Peter Richards MW 28:16

It’s a really interesting concept, isn’t it? Because I think, as we say, Bordeaux is often perceived sometimes in terms of its image, and that image is a very slick, you know, uh wealthy person saying, I’ve got this amazingly expensive wine, but it’s delicious, and making lots of money and driving around in fast cars. And actually, that’s not the truth, it’s not the truth anywhere. Um, but one one senses or may you know you do wonder if being more open about the difficulties that that people are facing, being a bit more open, a bit more honest, um, surely that’s not a bad thing. It’s it’s acknowledging the issues that are there, and then maybe uh that starting the discussion, as you’re saying, as to how best to move forward.

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre 28:56

No, it’s um we we consider that um today Bordeaux uh has known very three important big crises. The first one was Phylloxera, the second one was the Big Depression in the 30s, and now.

Peter Richards MW 29:14

So you that’s really interesting. You are putting the current crisis on a par with Phylloxera and and the Great Depression.

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre 29:20

Many, many people in the wine business are yes, considering that this crisis is um on the same same level, same scale, than indeed the phylloxera and the Great Depression in the in the 30s. Yes.

Susie Barrie MW 29:35

Wow. Well, that certainly puts things into perspective. And whatever the economic or structural damage, it’s the human aspect that trumps everything. Um our hearts go out to those families and communities affected by suicide or emotional distress. It’s desperately sad.

Peter Richards MW 29:51

Yeah, as we said, uh we’ve put lots of helpline details on our show notes. Um it’s something we all need to acknowledge and not shy away from. It’s it’s clearly a very real issue. Um, with perhaps what’s in the public domain merely the tip of the iceberg. Um very sad, as you say. Um Chloe also told the story of Amandine Noriega, a vigneronne at Maison du Berneuilh, who suffered a breakdown in 2024 during harvest, um, but was very open about it, posting on Instagram from her hospital bed, telling her story of serious financial hardship after taking on a family domain following the death of both her father and grandfather in the same year. Um, Chloe said that that story had profoundly affected her, uh, motivating her to help address the situation.

Susie Barrie MW 30:38

Yeah, and I think the first step, as Chloe said, is to collectively face up to reality, you know, to talk about this stuff, however hard it is. As for the wider situation Chloe talked about, wine consumption in France dropping 60%, the Bordeaux vineyard shrinking by more than 20% in just three years, with more likely to come. I mean, those are scary figures.

Peter Richards MW 31:00

Aren’t they? Aren’t they? If you just sit for a moment with those, you know, it’s it’s big. And the vine pull scheme, by the way, um sees uh that Chloe mentioned, sees grow as recompense for taking out vines in order to help you know incentivise balancing supply and demand, also to prevent abandoned vineyards acting as hubs for pests and disease. Um those were the figures Chloe mentioned. Um just as she touched on the changing Bordeaux landscape. Uh you know, so we could be seeing more Bordeaux olive oil, you know, Bordeaux goji berries now and Bordeaux apples in the future.

Susie Barrie MW 31:30

Quite a thought, isn’t it? Um but also hopefully better wine generally, too. Um so let’s take a pause before we come back for more.

MID-EPISODE RECAP

Susie Barrie MW 31:40

To recap so far, Bordeaux is facing a historic crisis, buffeted by fierce headwinds, from wildfires to climate change to a profound shift in consumption trends. The region’s proud vineyard has been severely pruned by more than a fifth in just three frantic years. Bordeaux wine producers are feeling the pressure. A recent survey showed a third of winemakers admitting to facing financial difficulties. There are bright spots on the horizon, but the issues don’t end there.

On ‘Bordeaux Claret’, creative innovation & the way forward

Peter Richards MW 32:12

Something that encapsulates this latter sort of dichotomy is the new ‘claret’ or ‘Bordeaux Claret’ category. Now we’ll come back, you’re smiling at me, we’ll come back to the name in a second. Uh, but essentially this designation officially launched in 2026, so part off the press but applicable to wines from the 2025 vintage, is an attempt by Bordeaux to reinvent its offering and reach younger drinkers with chillable reds.

Susie Barrie MW 32:38

I mean, essentially we’re talking about light, fresh, fruity reds with soft tannins, no oak, low-ish alcohol, and an easy-going style for unpretentious, informal, impromptu drinking at accessible prices in modern packaging with no aging required. The kind of thing, in short, that’s very popular right now, very much in demand, and exactly the kind of thing that Bordeaux should be doing given red wine is its bedrock. But it’s not all a bed of roses, is it?!

Peter Richards MW 33:06

No, no. The elephant in the room is the name. Um claret may work fine in France, but it’s a word that has existed in the English language for centuries, uh, a generic term to refer to all red Bordeaux wines. Um well, actually, sometimes in the past it was stretched to Bordeaux wines being blended with many other things, wasn’t it? You know, even Hermitage or Algerian wine! That’s another story there. We won’t go there. Um so um to try to co-opt the name claret for something very different and very specific is going to cause confusion at best. Um and that’s not even to get onto the pronunciation. You should have heard Chloe and me going backwards and forwards, you know, how to pronounce this thing. Is it is it claret or is it claret or is it clarette? Um apparently it’s the latter. Um, but no English speaker’s gonna say that, are they? No, I don’t uh and I’m not even sure the French agree either. You ask three French people what they are and you get different answers…

Susie Barrie MW 34:03

You know, um and that’s not to mention the further confusion with another category which already exists, which is clairet. Now, this is a designation for deep rosé wine. So actually pretty close stylistically to light reds, and it’s historic with many fans, and just one letter separating the categories, so you can see the issues.

Peter Richards MW 34:24

So we’ve got clairet is the deep rosé, and claret is the chillible red.

Susie Barrie MW 34:30

Or chilli, no, not deep red, chillible red.

Peter Richards MW 34:32

Yeah. And there’s a further problem, isn’t there, in the fact that they’re they’ve allowed a bit of residual sweetness to either be left in or be added to these new claret or claret wines, um, which is a first for Bordeaux reds. Um, it’s not much sweetness, seven grams per litre maximum. But we’ve already started seeing headlines raising questions about this practice, including the ‘Primitivo-ization’ of Bordeaux reds, referring to, of course, those southern Italian reds which came out with a little bit of sweetness to it. But anyway, I asked Chloe what she thought of all of this. Um, she acknowledged the potential for confusion in the name and added she was a big fan of clairet, the deep rosé, whose very survival she now feared for, given the way claret production production may go. I mean, the first vintage 2025, uh, there were already two million bottles made of claret. So it’s it’s seeing some you know some engagement, some uptake. But she also had positive things to say.

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre 35:24

So this category was created basically for the Gen Z and the millennials um generation. Uh, the goal is to put, you know, the bottle of wine in the fridge, and you go home and you take it out, and it’s fresh, and you can put it in a big glass, and you can put, if you want, ice cube in it. Obviously, also they are planning to have a different shape of bottles, they want to have uh no cork, uh, very modern uh labels with like colours, and I’ve heard also about the temperature sensitive ink, you know, by saying like uh uh fresh or ready on the bottle, and uh, when you take it out, if it’s like coloured, then it’s ready to be uh enjoyed. And obviously a price uh which is like around, if I’m not mistaken, like the 10 euros, I think, or below. So something really for the young generation.

Peter Richards MW 36:30

So Bordeaux attempting to reach the young generation with a product that’s that’s really informal, easy to to consume. Uh what do you think? What’s your what’s your take on this innovation? Is it a good thing or a bad thing for Bordeaux?

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre 36:41

I think in general, like every innovation is um is good, especially right now. I mean, uh, if you do have an idea, uh go for it. Uh, you know, it it can it can work. I think it’s a great idea to try to touch, in fact, the young generation. I think you know, by saying, yeah, you can put it in the fridge, I think it’s trendy right now, especially with the warm weather that we have in summer. I mean, you just want to have like a chill bottle of wine, and we can see the rose, it’s working very, very well, the white wine is working very, very well, the sparkling, it’s all like very fresh. So I I want to believe, I want to believe in the claret. Even if deep inside me, I would have liked maybe for Bordeaux to have been rewriting a little bit the clairet category because the question I also am asking myself is: is this category going to disappear? Uh for in fact the claret? I don’t know. But anyway, I think it’s a good idea to have like new products currently.

Peter Richards MW 37:52

Talking about evolution and change, you know, of course Bordeaux doesn’t just make red wines, it makes whites, it makes sweets, as you’ve said, it makes rose. Um, and increasingly things like sparkling and all kinds of uh Vins de France. Is stylistic diversification a good route for Bordeaux to take?

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre 38:07

I think today, you know, uh as I said, the crisis is so massive that winemakers are trying, and it’s it’s worth the try. Uh so indeed we do have a lot of winemakers that are going through diversification, and I think it’s clever because when you look at Bordeaux, a lot of wineries, like if you look, for instance, the Grand Cru Classés, usually they have the first label and a second label, and that’s it. And now we can see that well, we have the new AOC Médoc Blanc, so uh they’re producing now uh whites, but uh they are also uh producing a little bit of uh rose, and um when I’m talking with winemakers, they’re like, Yeah, when we’re going in fact in fairs to sell our wine, it’s quite nice to have also a wider range. So uh I can see in Bordeaux, and this is what is incredible with this crisis is the innovations. So obviously, we have the production of like new uh colours, like we said with the claret, uh the sparkling, it’s like increasing, and we do have a few producers that are also uh planting like chardonnay, and they’re doing quite a good job with like uh sparkling chardonnay. I can give you some addresses if you want, please. Uh, but we do have also um uh new international varieties, so Chardonnay, but I’ve heard about Gewurztraminer, uh, I’ve heard about Syrah. I know winemaker, um, and she is doing a blend with like a classic Bordeaux and Syrah, so it’s like an Hermitagé, like we were doing also in the past. I can see uh blanc de noir and not sparkling, yeah, with like Merlot, for instance. I can see a lot of orange wine. Um we have also um uh infused uh wines with like Chateau de Cranne is a winery you need to discover. So he has like obviously classic grapes varieties, but he also has PIWIs, so it’s quite a trend right now. Uh so you know it’s grape varieties that are very resistant to rot, which is quite useful in uh in Bordeaux. And so he is blending the grape variety from Bordeaux with some PIWIs, and then he just for fun, but it’s actually very good, uh did an infusion with Sichuan pepper that is growing in his garden and his organic, and he’s doing also um a wine, so obviously it’s Vin de France, uh it’s not Bordeaux, and with also the dried cherry tree leaves, also infusion for the red wine. Uh, it’s like amazing. I’ve seen also some producer doing sun-dried uh grape uh sweet wine. Incredible, and uh yeah, we do have also then a lot of canned uh wine, you know, very easy to transport. I can see also a lot of so in France we say Viere, so I don’t know in in the UK how you say, but it’s a mix of beer and wine…

Peter Richards MW 41:35

I see, uh yeah, um ‘Weer’?! Yeah, but I have never heard of that. Uh that’s not the right term, isn’t it?

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre 41:43

It’s quite interesting.

Peter Richards MW 41:43

How does that work though? A blend of beer and wine.

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre 41:46

So I think, in fact, in the must, um, they’re adding, in fact, grape juice. And so it’s doing the fermentation uh together.

Peter Richards MW 41:57

So the beer ingredients and the wine ingredients ferment together, do they then add hops or um yeah, they you do have hops. Yeah, as well. Gosh, uh, what does it taste like?

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre 42:07

Well, it’s quite interesting. I’m not really a big fan of beer.

Peter Richards MW 42:11

Interesting, doesn’t it? It’s not positive, is it?

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre 42:13

No, but it’s I’m not a really big fan of uh beer, so I’m not the good person to ask, but I thought, yeah, interesting because I could feel you know the well the the the beer was made with uh red uh black varieties, so uh the colour was interesting, and I could smell you know the the flavours in fact of uh the the berries, so it was it was quite uh yeah, it was interesting. It’s not necessarily negative, it’s just okay a little bit like an uh UFO, you know.

Peter Richards MW 42:44

I’m sorry if I’m putting words in your in your mouth, but tasting tasting UFOs uh sounds sounds fantastic. And obviously, so a tremendous amount of innovation going on, which I suppose might force everyone to re-evaluate what Bordeaux is and what Bordeaux will be in the future, you know. But there’s one thing producing things, uh exciting things, there’s another thing selling it to the world. And you know, Bordeaux, you could say, has lost touch with a generation of wine drinkers. How can people get back out there and persuade people to re-engage, persuade wine drinkers, especially young ones, to re-engage with the Bordeaux and get excited about Bordeaux again?

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre 43:17

It’s a very good and very interesting question because, like you said, Bordeaux has like a double image, it has this image, a little bit bling bling, grand cru classés, uh chic luxury product, indeed, with this image of like a beautiful chateau and uh very wealthy owners driving in a Ferrari. Haven’t seen a lot of Ferraris in uh around, but yeah… And in the same time, this image of like very classic, affordable wine. And I think people misunderstand a little bit what is Bordeaux by thinking that Grand Cru Classés is like the majority. Of what is happening. And don’t mistake me, I think it’s very important for us to have the Grand Cru Classés. I mean, they have built an image of Bordeaux, of like quality and also of longevity, because they have been there for quite a while. They have been attracting consumers all around the world. They have placed our bottles in very extraordinary restaurants. But the reality is that the majority of the vineyards are family-owned and that the price of an average Bordeaux uh bottle of wine, no matter the colour, in uh in a supermarket is around five to six euros. This is the reality today. So if we have a positive communication about Bordeaux, saying, okay, yeah, sure, you have the Grand Cru Classés, and um if you if you have the money, if you have, if you want to learn, if you want to go there. But there is also a lot of wines that are extremely well made at super duper prices for any moments of consumption. Uh this is what we we we have also to focus on. But I think we need also to say to the to the sommelier, to the wine shops, you know, to come in fact in Bordeaux and to come back because they have not they have deserted a little bit Bordeaux. Um because also of this image of like very chic, very blah… and so they they need in fact to come back, they need to taste also, they need to meet winemakers, and I think maybe going back to simplicity and to human and to our terroir because we are terroirists, so it won’t change, but you know, I to sincerity to I think uh I think it’s important, and it’s important also to talk about Bordeaux getting greener, about in fact this diversity of uh of uh colours, of styles, of prices, and I think we need we need to communicate.

Peter Richards MW 46:25

Um Chloe, we’ve talked a lot about the challenges currently facing Bordeaux. You know, what are the what are the bright spots on the horizon?

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre 46:32

You know, the fact that Bordeaux is still considered in the world as um one of the best wine region. I was telling you in in July I welcomed like people from the US, and they were so happy to come here, and they left even more happier because it was yeah, the the landscape is wonderful. We Bordeaux is classified by UNESCO, the vineyard of Saint-Emilion is classified by UNESCO, we do have great gastronomy, we do have a lot of wine tourism that is developing. Also, we haven’t really talked about that, but it might be, it’s not the solution, it’s not the solution, like a lot of people are trying to say, but it’s one of them. When you know that 30% of the sales uh can be from, in fact, the wine tourism, it can be like interesting, you know, and uh and we do have a lot of wine tourists that are from France but also abroad, they have money to uh uh to spend, so it can be like uh a good way also to develop and to change this image. And I think I hope that everybody in Bordeaux has understood that we are in the crisis and we need to be together, and we need like everybody that is doing positive communication about Bordeaux, it’s a little you know, white rock on the path, on the the road that we are building. So um I think we we we we have also to stick together, uh, which is not that easy in France, uh it’s always uh but uh we need uh you know to stick uh together, to save together this uh Bordeaux soldier. So there there is still, I think the the on a short term it’s not going to be bright, bright. But to acknowledge that there is a crisis and to try to make changes is the start of the recovery, and so we need after to continue to talk about Bordeaux, and uh it’s not going to be easy uh because um to talk it’s nice, but uh in the vineyard, uh, like we said, we have people that are suffering, but we need we need yeah to to help them and uh to be there also and to drink. Oh my god, we do have something in French. We say ‘boire un canon c’est sauver un vigneron’. So it’s like: to drink a bottle of wine is to save a winemaker.

Peter Richards MW 49:10

What a wonderful thought. Um Chloe, this has been absolutely fascinating. Thank you very much indeed.

Chloé Cazaux Grandpierre 49:15

Well, thank you very much, Peter.

Susie Barrie MW 49:22

Gosh, the landscape of Bordeaux really is changing, literally and metaphorically. You know, infusions with Sichuan pepper and cherry leaves and beer and wine hybrids, and I’m not sure I know which way is up anymore!

Peter Richards MW 49:35

Apparently, Merlot Cola is another one. Oh my god. Um, which of course hints at a fascinating backstory of how Coca-Cola came to be. Legend has it that it was inspired by historic tonic wine called Vin Mariani, which was a blend of, you guessed it, red Bordeaux wine with coca leaves and other things.

Susie Barrie MW 49:53

Where do you get all this stuff from?!

Peter Richards MW 49:54

Uh, which in Coca Cola was then adapted for a teetotal American market. Anyway, that’s for another podcast. You’re right. I think it is, but it is an interesting stuff. The circle’s being squared. Anyway, innovation is clearly rampant, isn’t it, in response to the current crisis. Um, Chloe said she was blown away by the creativity producers are showing, which is a positive thing, right?

Susie Barrie MW 50:15

Yeah, I mean it’s a double-edged sword. You know, for a long time, Bordeaux has built its reputation around a classic style of red wine, and that’s proved very popular. And okay, that will remain, particularly at the top end, but to now have to reinvent their offering across the engine rooms of the region, that’s not going to be easy. But on balance, I do agree with you, it’s the least bad option, you know, given all the many challenges facing the region, as we’ve discussed.

Peter Richards MW 50:40

Yeah, because I mean Chloe makes a point that Bordeaux has always changed and evolved throughout history. It’s never been one static thing. And as she says, it’s a mistake to think of Bordeaux as just wealthy guys in suits counting their cash in turreted chateau towers behind closed gates. Um that ignores the majority of the region, which is smaller producers often making really interesting wines, uh, increasingly interesting, clearly, and very much open for visits and and fun.

Susie Barrie MW 51:07

Yeah, I mean we’re gonna come on to what we think Bordeaux should be doing in the next episode. Um but Chloe also mentioned the fact that sustainability is an increasing focus for producers in the region, as is making less but better wine with less intervention in the cellar. So she says general quality is improving, and we tend to agree with that. Um she also mentioned winemakers travelling more, presenting the human face of the region, which is so important, and also more direct sales, including via wine tourism. Both issues we’ll come on to in the next programme, won’t we?

Peter Richards MW 51:39

Yeah, we’re also going to revisit the big Claret / Claret uh debate in the next episode and give our verdict on the whole thing. Uh be interesting to hear your views in the meantime. So do send us a message if uh you feel inspired to do so!

Outro inc what’s coming up in the next episode

Susie Barrie MW 51:53

So, in that next and concluding episode in our Bordeaux mini mini-series, uh we’re talking to Laurent David, who went from launching the iPhone in Europe for Apple to launching a whole new wine concept in one of the most traditional regions in Bordeaux, Saint Emilion. You will not want to miss that one. We’ll not only be discussing topics like claret or clarette, how Bordeaux can learn from big tech, but also other hot potatoes like the current crisis, the en primeur system, and the 2026 vintage.

Peter Richards MW 52:25

Yeah, do join us then. Uh meantime, thanks to Chloeé Cazaux Grandpierre, and thanks to you for listening. Again, just a reminder that if you’ve been affected by any issues we’ve covered in this episode, please do seek help or get in touch. And there are lots of links in our show notes. Until next time, cheers!